13th region refs

[jimmyref]

I saw a 13th region ref throw a man out of a game that was clearly mentally disabled, wasn't disruptive to the game, or cussing. I doubt this ref could even understand what this fellow was even saying. He was simply enjoying one of the pleasures in his life, watching a basketball game. I think he called the ref, "a cheater". :scared: The fans and even the officer who was asked to escort him out, were in total shock at this ref. I think everyone thought he was just joking with him to begin with. Forget reffing, how about acting like a human being! It made me sick to my stomach. Poor guy.

 

Let me interject and not discuss this particular play but tell me what you do with the following?

 

A______ yells out within hearing distance of both benches and players that "ref, you're a cheater"

 

Complete the blank with the following

player

assistant coach

head coach

Principal

Cheerleader

Policeman providing security to the officials

Handicapped kid in wheelchair

 

I would like to hear your response before I give mine to see if we are on the same page.

[Les]

Let me interject and not discuss this particular play but tell me what you do with the following?

 

A______ yells out within hearing distance of both benches and players that "ref, you're a cheater"

 

Complete the blank with the following

player

assistant coach

head coach

Principal

Cheerleader

Policeman providing security to the officials

Handicapped kid in wheelchair

 

I would like to hear your response before I give mine to see if we are on the same page.

 

 

Well, to be honest, I've been around everyone in my time except for a player that has yelled at a ref during the game and called them a cheater. Some of the coaches got a technical, but I didn't see anyone that I was sitting close to during these situations ever get thrown out.

[SECUMLATRES]

Let me interject and not discuss this particular play but tell me what you do with the following?

 

A______ yells out within hearing distance of both benches and players that "ref, you're a cheater"

 

Complete the blank with the following

player

assistant coach

head coach

Principal

Cheerleader

Policeman providing security to the officials

Handicapped kid in wheelchair

 

I would like to hear your response before I give mine to see if we are on the same page.

 

 

 

Player = Flagrant T

Assistant Coach = Flagrant T

Head Coach = Flagrant T

Principal = Leave

Cheerleader = Leave

Policeman providing security to the officials = Wouldn't happen around here

Handicapped kid in wheelchair, OR ANY OTHER FAN = Ignore

 

 

Change the situation a bit and say that it is only audible to you and whoever is saying it with team personnel, just a regular old T.

 

Some people may think differently, but I come from a baseball background, and "You" followed by anything derogatory deserves an ejection. Most of the technicals I have ever given involve insinuations, or blatant displays of dissatisfaction. Something along the lines of "Call it the same both ways" that is audible to other team personnel and or fans just deserves a T.... even though they are insinuating you are cheating.

 

I come from kind of an old school background. If I can solve something on the court verbally, team personnel may not always appreciate it. However, once they figure out that responding firmly and directly kept them from getting a T, they are usually ok with it.

 

Just my opinion. And by the way, I have had one T in my region this year... only for a player slamming a ball in disgust of a call.

[Mama Bear]

Let me interject and not discuss this particular play but tell me what you do with the following?

 

A______ yells out within hearing distance of both benches and players that "ref, you're a cheater"

 

Complete the blank with the following

player

assistant coach

head coach

Principal

Cheerleader

Policeman providing security to the officials

Handicapped kid in wheelchair

 

I would like to hear your response before I give mine to see if we are on the same page.

 

First, I have never reffed a game, nor do I ever want to. But I have played. As a player, I tuned out everything going on in the gym and focused on playing ball and never ever really heard the fans, the opposing coaches, the Principal, the police officers, anybody that was physically handicapped, and especially anybody that was mentally impaired. If the players can manage to play, the coaches can manage to coach, while in a gym full of yelling fans, then why is it too much to ask an official to do the same. If someone was cussing or making physical threats, then toss'em, but "you're a cheater"? Come on!

 

This particular incident was not in ear shot of either benches or coaches and was during a time out on the opposite side of the gym. The man who was thrown out is child like. Throw him a wink, turn around, and ref the game. Flexing your proverbial muscle by throwing a mentally impaired gentleman out of a basketball game is low down in my opinion. IF you want to throw somebody out, pick the guy who is cussing and screaming and making the rest of the fans uncomfortable, but "Come on ref, get in the game!":idunno:

[alwayswrong]

You'd be amazed at the number of officials (specifically repeat Sweet 16 appointees) that went to the class solely because of watching officials at their kids games.

 

Then again, you can pick out the officials that are there with their own agenda and it's the worst thing you've ever seen.

 

Don't forget the guys and gals that put in ther time, do their best to stay in top shape, and go out there every night to get the job done...

 

:thumb:

[alwayswrong]

OK, so I thought about it awhile and yes, I know I'm replying to my own last comment.

 

:confused::argue::confused:

 

Any fan, coach, player, or anyone else that has the audacity to step out either here or anywhere else and openly criticize officials the way this thread started is way out of line. This is why the NCAA, MLB, NFL etc has banned coaches from making such comments.

 

The only way to acheive Varsity status in the KHSAA is thru COACHES' VOTE. This was the way former Asst Commisioner Boucher wanted it. Then, even if an official gets a Varsity schedule, each coach can scratch 10% of the Varsity stable in his region. If there are problems with a certain official, that is the means of not seeing him.

 

As for the rest of the troubled masses, come on out and work a few games. Try working three four or five nights a week to get better, to get to that Varsity level.

 

OK so you don't want the hassle, either becouse you're skin is too thin or you can't handle the physical side or more innocently you dont have the time... Come on out to one of the non-KHSAA forums, for example KBA, SOAS (in nky) or anywhere that has multiple floors using a mixture of officials. Then try real hard its not tha difficult) to pick out the refs that 1.know the rules, 2. work hard to better themselves in each game and 3. try to help their fellow officials. When you look, I think you'd be amazed at the quality you do get VS what is really out there... :thumb:

[Cat_n_the_Hat]

Who was the official that threw the wheelchair man out? If I were guessing I would say either Terry Nelson, Mike Trent or Ralph Woods they all seem to pay more attention to whats going on in the stands rather than whats going on, on the floor. They all seem to be decent officials but have NO skin.

[Commander 25]

OK, so I thought about it awhile and yes, I know I'm replying to my own last comment.

 

:confused::argue::confused:

 

Any fan, coach, player, or anyone else that has the audacity to step out either here or anywhere else and openly criticize officials the way this thread started is way out of line. This is why the NCAA, MLB, NFL etc has banned coaches from making such comments.

 

The only way to acheive Varsity status in the KHSAA is thru COACHES' VOTE. This was the way former Asst Commisioner Boucher wanted it. Then, even if an official gets a Varsity schedule, each coach can scratch 10% of the Varsity stable in his region. If there are problems with a certain official, that is the means of not seeing him.

 

 

This is a very good post. I agree with you. You can figure out who really wants to get better and who doesn't. I would say that the good officials across the state will tune out all of the fan noise that is going on or just plain ignore it.:thumb:

As for the rest of the troubled masses, come on out and work a few games. Try working three four or five nights a week to get better, to get to that Varsity level.

 

OK so you don't want the hassle, either becouse you're skin is too thin or you can't handle the physical side or more innocently you dont have the time... Come on out to one of the non-KHSAA forums, for example KBA, SOAS (in nky) or anywhere that has multiple floors using a mixture of officials. Then try real hard its not tha difficult) to pick out the refs that 1.know the rules, 2. work hard to better themselves in each game and 3. try to help their fellow officials. When you look, I think you'd be amazed at the quality you do get VS what is really out there... :thumb:

 

This is a very good post. I agree with you. You can figure out who really wants to get better and who doesn't. I would say that the good officials across the state will tune out all of the fan noise that is going on or just plain ignore it.:thumb:

[ColonelMike]

OK, so I thought about it awhile and yes, I know I'm replying to my own last comment.

 

:confused::argue::confused:

 

Any fan, coach, player, or anyone else that has the audacity to step out either here or anywhere else and openly criticize officials the way this thread started is way out of line. This is why the NCAA, MLB, NFL etc has banned coaches from making such comments.

 

The only way to acheive Varsity status in the KHSAA is thru COACHES' VOTE. This was the way former Asst Commisioner Boucher wanted it. Then, even if an official gets a Varsity schedule, each coach can scratch 10% of the Varsity stable in his region. If there are problems with a certain official, that is the means of not seeing him.

 

As for the rest of the troubled masses, come on out and work a few games. Try working three four or five nights a week to get better, to get to that Varsity level.

 

OK so you don't want the hassle, either becouse you're skin is too thin or you can't handle the physical side or more innocently you dont have the time... Come on out to one of the non-KHSAA forums, for example KBA, SOAS (in nky) or anywhere that has multiple floors using a mixture of officials. Then try real hard its not tha difficult) to pick out the refs that 1.know the rules, 2. work hard to better themselves in each game and 3. try to help their fellow officials. When you look, I think you'd be amazed at the quality you do get VS what is really out there... :thumb:

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

[Odessa]

Sorry I am posting so late on this thread but I couldn't go without throwing my two cents in. I too was at the game where the man was tossed and I couldn't believe what I saw. Everybody in the 13th region knows this guy. He is one of those that has been around basketball games for years upon years. I won't mention the refs name but I hope he feels ashame of what he did after he had time to think about it.

[HS sports fan]

OK, so I thought about it awhile and yes, I know I'm replying to my own last comment.

 

:confused::argue::confused:

 

Any fan, coach, player, or anyone else that has the audacity to step out either here or anywhere else and openly criticize officials the way this thread started is way out of line. This is why the NCAA, MLB, NFL etc has banned coaches from making such comments.

 

The only way to acheive Varsity status in the KHSAA is thru COACHES' VOTE. This was the way former Asst Commisioner Boucher wanted it. Then, even if an official gets a Varsity schedule, each coach can scratch 10% of the Varsity stable in his region. If there are problems with a certain official, that is the means of not seeing him.

 

As for the rest of the troubled masses, come on out and work a few games. Try working three four or five nights a week to get better, to get to that Varsity level.

 

OK so you don't want the hassle, either becouse you're skin is too thin or you can't handle the physical side or more innocently you dont have the time... Come on out to one of the non-KHSAA forums, for example KBA, SOAS (in nky) or anywhere that has multiple floors using a mixture of officials. Then try real hard its not tha difficult) to pick out the refs that 1.know the rules, 2. work hard to better themselves in each game and 3. try to help their fellow officials. When you look, I think you'd be amazed at the quality you do get VS what is really out there... :thumb:

 

 

Many of the officials in the 13th are not in good enough physical condition to run the floor.

 

We have an official that was calling varsity games way before paying his dues to earn varsity status. I'm not saying he is a bad official, but no way he worked his way up through the ranks. I'm sure it even caused some resentment among other officials in same region.

[jimmyref]

Player = Flagrant T

Assistant Coach = Flagrant T

Head Coach = Flagrant T

Principal = Leave

Cheerleader = Leave

Policeman providing security to the officials = Wouldn't happen around here

Handicapped kid in wheelchair, OR ANY OTHER FAN = Ignore

 

 

Change the situation a bit and say that it is only audible to you and whoever is saying it with team personnel, just a regular old T.

 

Some people may think differently, but I come from a baseball background, and "You" followed by anything derogatory deserves an ejection. Most of the technicals I have ever given involve insinuations, or blatant displays of dissatisfaction. Something along the lines of "Call it the same both ways" that is audible to other team personnel and or fans just deserves a T.... even though they are insinuating you are cheating.

 

I come from kind of an old school background. If I can solve something on the court verbally, team personnel may not always appreciate it. However, once they figure out that responding firmly and directly kept them from getting a T, they are usually ok with it.

 

Just my opinion. And by the way, I have had one T in my region this year... only for a player slamming a ball in disgust of a call.

 

"Call it both ways" is a phrase one of our former assigners highlighted as a automatic T and we were taught to assess it immediately. agree or disagree- it insinuates that the ref is calling it "one way" and thus cheating. Automatic t for players coaches and bench personnel.

 

One specific case that happened in Louisville was the referee was working a JV/varsity doubleheader at a small private school. The assistant coach got out of hand and was assessed a second technical and asked to leave the gym. He refused to leave and went to the stage at one end of the floor and sat with his legs overhanging. This was unacceptable to the referee because he was 10 feet behind the basket and 3 feet behind the referee when the game resumed. No policeman was present since they have to be present for the varsity game-not the JV.

 

The coach went to the head coach and asked for game management.

The head JV coached replied" that would be Coach X who is now sitting on the stage. " Okay, is there a principal here? "Coach X is the principal".

 

The referee basically had to threaten to call the game to get the coach to vacate the gym. Coach X agreed to and the JV game continued.

 

It was interesting when Coach X came out for the varsity game. KHSAA rules states that a coach must sit out the next game at that level so Coach X sat out the next JV game but not the varsity game. We all remember that rule now. By the way, guess who had to pay the referees after the game. you betcha- Coach X!

 

We have had cheerleaders sue referees for pushing them back off the floor during play, policemen run on the floor to confront referees at the end of games, fans being escorted out of the gym and entire gyms cleared before play resumed. Out of bounds behavior must be addressed immediately or else the snowball starts and grows. Players pick up on it, coaches pick up on it and the game deterioates quickly.

 

I won't comment on a specific play because I wasn't there but a great mechanic is to call a brief conference on a dead ball with your partner with your back to the crowd. The partner Tries to see and locate the fan. If the fan is continuing to be obnoxious, now you have two witnesses and you've given the fan the opportunity to calm down without stopping the game or bringing attention to yourself or him. 99% of the time, get the ball back in play quickly and move on. There is that 1% that will do something to cause us to get game management and have him removed. Never never never will I address a fan-It would take a continuous verbal attack to go to that extreme.

So let's say I heard someone say "You're a cheater" everytime I run up and down the floor. I use the mechanic with my partner and he locates the offender. He would of probably say something like " dude, its a kid in a wheelchair but do what you have to do." If the kid is continually screaming-then get game management and have the partner toss him. If not, Cooler heads would prevail and I would probably put the ball in quickly. I am not condoning or debating what happened at that gym- I don't know what happened or what was said. But I do know that all referees want a fair game on both sides.

[wire]

Player = Flagrant T

Assistant Coach = Flagrant T

Head Coach = Flagrant T

Principal = Leave

Cheerleader = Leave

Policeman providing security to the officials = Wouldn't happen around here

Handicapped kid in wheelchair, OR ANY OTHER FAN = Ignore

 

 

Change the situation a bit and say that it is only audible to you and whoever is saying it with team personnel, just a regular old T.

 

Some people may think differently, but I come from a baseball background, and "You" followed by anything derogatory deserves an ejection. Most of the technicals I have ever given involve insinuations, or blatant displays of dissatisfaction. Something along the lines of "Call it the same both ways" that is audible to other team personnel and or fans just deserves a T.... even though they are insinuating you are cheating.

 

I come from kind of an old school background. If I can solve something on the court verbally, team personnel may not always appreciate it. However, once they figure out that responding firmly and directly kept them from getting a T, they are usually ok with it.

 

Just my opinion. And by the way, I have had one T in my region this year... only for a player slamming a ball in disgust of a call.

 

:thumb: I agree... Rabbit Ears are not good for an official of any sport, especially when it is a fan with remarks.... Just ignore the fan and concentrate on the game and be consistent.

[Cawoodball player]

I don't think refs in the 13th region cheat for a certain team. I have seen teams come in who aren't in the region, and get some really bad calls.

 

My biggest problem is the fact that they are sometimes inconsistent. Either they let the players play and the game is physical, or they call EVERYTHING! I wish they would keep some consistency in this area.

[Cat_n_the_Hat]

"Call it both ways" is a phrase one of our former assigners highlighted as a automatic T and we were taught to assess it immediately. agree or disagree- it insinuates that the ref is calling it "one way" and thus cheating. Automatic t for players coaches and bench personnel.

 

One specific case that happened in Louisville was the referee was working a JV/varsity doubleheader at a small private school. The assistant coach got out of hand and was assessed a second technical and asked to leave the gym. He refused to leave and went to the stage at one end of the floor and sat with his legs overhanging. This was unacceptable to the referee because he was 10 feet behind the basket and 3 feet behind the referee when the game resumed. No policeman was present since they have to be present for the varsity game-not the JV.

 

The coach went to the head coach and asked for game management.

The head JV coached replied" that would be Coach X who is now sitting on the stage. " Okay, is there a principal here? "Coach X is the principal".

 

The referee basically had to threaten to call the game to get the coach to vacate the gym. Coach X agreed to and the JV game continued.

 

It was interesting when Coach X came out for the varsity game. KHSAA rules states that a coach must sit out the next game at that level so Coach X sat out the next JV game but not the varsity game. We all remember that rule now. By the way, guess who had to pay the referees after the game. you betcha- Coach X!

 

We have had cheerleaders sue referees for pushing them back off the floor during play, policemen run on the floor to confront referees at the end of games, fans being escorted out of the gym and entire gyms cleared before play resumed. Out of bounds behavior must be addressed immediately or else the snowball starts and grows. Players pick up on it, coaches pick up on it and the game deterioates quickly.

 

I won't comment on a specific play because I wasn't there but a great mechanic is to call a brief conference on a dead ball with your partner with your back to the crowd. The partner Tries to see and locate the fan. If the fan is continuing to be obnoxious, now you have two witnesses and you've given the fan the opportunity to calm down without stopping the game or bringing attention to yourself or him. 99% of the time, get the ball back in play quickly and move on. There is that 1% that will do something to cause us to get game management and have him removed. Never never never will I address a fan-It would take a continuous verbal attack to go to that extreme.

So let's say I heard someone say "You're a cheater" everytime I run up and down the floor. I use the mechanic with my partner and he locates the offender. He would of probably say something like " dude, its a kid in a wheelchair but do what you have to do." If the kid is continually screaming-then get game management and have the partner toss him. If not, Cooler heads would prevail and I would probably put the ball in quickly. I am not condoning or debating what happened at that gym- I don't know what happened or what was said. But I do know that all referees want a fair game on both sides.

 

I thought the rule said for the rest of that day and the next game at that level. So if a coach/player gets tossed out of the first game of a tourny on saturday morning and they have three games that day at the same level and a game at the same level the following monday. When does the player/coach get to return?