Are Site Based Decision Making Councils really the best way?

[whataboutthis]

Are you talking about public schools in Kentucky? I was under the impression that the only one the super could fire was (besides his staff) would be the principal.

 

Yes in Kentucky public schools the superintedant is the only one who (pending board approva) can official terminate or hire anyone. Now how easy it is to terminate someone that is a different story.

 

See KRS 160.380

[leatherneck]

I have served on our school's SBDMC many times. Parent members only account for 2 of the six seats, so they do not have a majority, or even an equal standing. I believe that teachers and parents deserve a voice, in addition to the principal, in making important school decisions.

 

 

I sort of disagree with you from the standpoint of teachers being on the SBDM (and again, I have great respect for teachers as I have a brother that is a very dedicated teacher and a sister that is a retired teacher and likewise was very dedicated). Having a voice is one thing and controlling 3 of the 6 seats (and thus the decision making) is quite another. In my opinion, the parents are the owners of the school system and should call the shots that are left up to the SBDM. Now, enlighted owners listen to their workers' input and make informed decisions and the parents would be stupid to not at least listen to the input of the teachers, but I know very few businesses or other entities that allow the workers to dictate what happens. If the teachers can't convince the parents on the SBDM board to take certain actions, either the argument is not very convincing or the parents have no business being on the SBDM board and should not be re-elected.

[True blue (and gold)]

I sort of disagree with you from the standpoint of teachers being on the SBDM (and again, I have great respect for teachers as I have a brother that is a very dedicated teacher and a sister that is a retired teacher and likewise was very dedicated). Having a voice is one thing and controlling 3 of the 6 seats (and thus the decision making) is quite another. In my opinion, the parents are the owners of the school system and should call the shots that are left up to the SBDM. Now, enlighted owners listen to their workers' input and make informed decisions and the parents would be stupid to not at least listen to the input of the teachers, but I know very few businesses or other entities that allow the workers to dictate what happens. If the teachers can't convince the parents on the SBDM board to take certain actions, either the argument is not very convincing or the parents have no business being on the SBDM board and should not be re-elected.

 

I understand your point, but if we consider the parents to be "owners," they are ones that do not actually work at the business and have a very limited understanding of what occurs in the place of employment.

 

In all of my experience (five years on SBDMC), there really was never any "sides" to be taken. All six members took part in finding solutions for problems. There were seldom ANY disagreements and things went smoothly. All three groups - administrator, teachers, parents - can provide insight into things that the other two groups cannot, and therefore are an important part.

[leatherneck]

I understand your point, but if we consider the parents to be "owners," they are ones that do not actually work at the business and have a very limited understanding of what occurs in the place of employment.

 

In all of my experience (five years on SBDMC), there really was never any "sides" to be taken. All six members took part in finding solutions for problems. There were seldom ANY disagreements and things went smoothly. All three groups - administrator, teachers, parents - can provide insight into things that the other two groups cannot, and therefore are an important part.

 

First I am very glad that your experience has been a positive one and the SBDMC worked the way it was intended to be.

 

Second, while I understand your point about the owners not working at the business,I hope you'd agree that the fact that the parents at your school had a limited understanding of what occurs in schools is not the case at all schools. At other schools, parents are much, much more involved. I had a teacher at Highlands just tell me a story. At the last Parent's Night (or whatever its called) he had made copies of certain material to hand out to the parents meeting him. He blew through those copies and said he had to run and make more copies. He had previously taught (until this year) at another school (I'll keep that school's ID to myself as I'm not interested in dealing with that issue now) and had had very few parents come and meet with him. He was totally blown away with the number of parents that came and wanted to meet with him. I think he said that the parents of every student except 2or 3 signed in that night and the next day the parents of those students called and left messages apologizing for not being able to be there the night before.

 

And I do agree that the SBDMC can work well, very well, when the players don't let their interests get in the way of the students' interests.

[True blue (and gold)]

First I am very glad that your experience has been a positive one and the SBDMC worked the way it was intended to be.

 

Second, while I understand your point about the owners not working at the business,I hope you'd agree that the fact that the parents at your school had a limited understanding of what occurs in schools is not the case at all schools. At other schools, parents are much, much more involved. I had a teacher at Highlands just tell me a story. At the last Parent's Night (or whatever its called) he had made copies of certain material to hand out to the parents meeting him. He blew through those copies and said he had to run and make more copies. He had previously taught (until this year) at another school (I'll keep that school's ID to myself as I'm not interested in dealing with that issue now) and had had very few parents come and meet with him. He was totally blown away with the number of parents that came and wanted to meet with him. I think he said that the parents of every student except 2or 3 signed in that night and the next day the parents of those students called and left messages apologizing for not being able to be there the night before.

 

And I do agree that the SBDMC can work well, very well, when the players don't let their interests get in the way of the students' interests.

 

Unless you work in the school with the kids, you will have limited understanding of what is occurring and what some of the issues are. Your example had been a teacher - which is a plus - but maybe not at the same school and definitely not during the year he was on the council. He simply would not know the issues that that school faced with the same depth. Were your council to consist of just an administrator and parents, it would be highly lacking and less effective. Without the parents, who are obviously huge stakeholders, the same would be true.

[CoachBuckett]

My experience with site base as well as parents on the BOE is they often have their own agenda. Which creates issues in smaller districts. They don't look out for ALL kids.

[acemona]

My experience with site base as well as parents on the BOE is they often have their own agenda. Which creates issues in smaller districts. They don't look out for ALL kids.

 

Amen Coach, but that can be said of teachers too.

 

The simple fact is, the more people you have touching the process the better protection you have against ONE agenda being pushed.

 

You still have to have a strong, enlightened leader (principal) for the process to work effectively.

[owsleyking]

Yes in Kentucky public schools the superintedant is the only one who (pending board approva) can official terminate or hire anyone. Now how easy it is to terminate someone that is a different story.

 

See KRS 160.380

 

I stand corrected on that point....however he does not need board approval to do so...in fact that would be illegal under KERA (with the exception of the board attorney,financial officer and secretary,who can be terminated by the board at discretion without the Supt's approval). And,technically,he only has to keep the board informed on these issues as a courtesy except in matters of tenured personel where legal matters can become an issue.

 

My point was this..and I guess I just didn't get it across (and again my apologies for the miscue here).....why have a SBDMC when truly the only power they have is to hire the principal,when the THEN hired principal has the final say.What is the point?

[ladiesbballcoach]

Doesn't that create a conflict when 3 of the members are working for the principal. I know that in my job if I continuously disagreed with my boss, I'd have a real good chance of having the opportunity to be looking for a new boss.

 

That is what you would think.

 

There have been cases where teachers have WANTED and SEEKED a SBDM spot because they wanted to stick it to the principal.

[Stayinline]

Site base governance will need to be revised in the near future. The largest issue that has faced and is facing a growing number of councils is the lack of accountability to reach their respective test goals. There is already a growing body of evidence where site base circle the wagons instead of dealing with more corrective measures. This will only get worse and more confrontational as 2014 date arrives.

 

I am also disappointed to read teachers who fear having accountability in their school. An informed and empowered parent is a strong advocate. While teachers are professional educators they are not income producers, substantial taxpayers nor are they influence and decision makers in their respective communities. Teachers have come to fear parent involvement and that has to change.

 

I believe the structure of site base has to become a majority of the taxpaying community. That is already the case with board members. Board members give the money to the schools. It only makes sense that local and accountable leadership be in control of school financial and planning issues.