Tim Hardaway's Comments...

[bugatti]

Fred Phelps with a killer crossover.

:lol:

[rockmom]

The comments by Hardaway are abhorrent to me, and they should be to anyone, especially Christians.

I have to say I agree with what Jim Shue says. Like it or not, many Christians pick and choose their justification for their feelings from the Bible. The Bible’s passages have been used for years by people claiming to be Christians to justify hateful attitudes, hateful behavior, and hateful actions. Read through history. How many crimes against humanity have been done in the name of God?

The problem I have is this: A Christian cannot choose to justify their actions by quoting a passage in the Bible. The Bible has many, many passages, and many times those quoted the most are quoted without the surrounding context. In addition to finding passages that somehow seem to condone intolerant behavior, there are passages that mandate tolerant behavior. Yet, those are not the ones which are lauded by many fundamentalist Christians as the predominant Word of God.

The point HSSB makes about getting bogged down in the details is dead on, IMO. The Bible contains many messages, but the overall message is of God’s love for us, and the gift of our salvation through the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

LBBC points out ways that Jesus displayed the willingness to defy popular opinion. But, there are some more telling examples, IMO, of Jesus’ true message to us:

Jesus befriended Mary Magdaline

Jesus walked among the lepers

Jesus knew of the betrayals of Peter and Judas and still loved them

We can go back and forth, and back and forth. My issue comes when people assume that because they can find a passage in the Bible to somehow justify behavior that is hateful, discriminatory or bigoted, while ignoring the messages of love that pervade throughout the same Book.

How can you believe that the Bible is dictated word for word from God and only choose to use certain passages to live by?

[HHSDad]

So Hardaway doesn't have a right to an opinion? He should have to apologize for his beliefs? While I don't approve of him "hating" gays, why can't he voice an honest opinion. I heard the interview and he didn't bring it up, the interviewer did. And the hate comment didn't come out until the interviewer called Hardaway "homophobic". Let's just keep saying what we think other people want to hear instead of the truth. We're all so full of political correctness crap, I'm not sure what keeps us from exploding.

[cshs81]

So Hardaway doesn't have a right to an opinion? He should have to apologize for his beliefs? While I don't approve of him "hating" gays, why can't he voice an honest opinion. I heard the interview and he didn't bring it up, the interviewer did. And the hate comment didn't come out until the interviewer called Hardaway "homophobic". Let's just keep saying what we think other people want to hear instead of the truth. We're all so full of political correctness crap, I'm not sure what keeps us from exploding.

 

Who said he couldn't express his opinion?

[h.s.sportsrbest]

So Hardaway doesn't have a right to an opinion? He should have to apologize for his beliefs? While I don't approve of him "hating" gays, why can't he voice an honest opinion. I heard the interview and he didn't bring it up, the interviewer did. And the hate comment didn't come out until the interviewer called Hardaway "homophobic". Let's just keep saying what we think other people want to hear instead of the truth. We're all so full of political correctness crap, I'm not sure what keeps us from exploding.

Really? It's Dan Lebatards' fault?

 

So if Joe "WhiteMale" hates blacks it's an "honest opinion?" What about Joe "BlackMale" hating whites, is that an "honest opinion?" Maybe you're right, maybe we should all go around just spewing "the truth," that should really get us somewhere. Sorry, but to me, "hatred" based on someone's skin tone, sexual persuasion, or religious beliefs will NEVER be considered an "honest opinion." It's lunacy and small-minded bigotry. However, as I said above, I was giving him a tad of credit for not leaning on a crutch and standing on that wobbly pedastal all on his own.

[spindoc]

The comments by Hardaway are abhorrent to me, and they should be to anyone, especially Christians.

I have to say I agree with what Jim Shue says. Like it or not, many Christians pick and choose their justification for their feelings from the Bible. The Bible’s passages have been used for years by people claiming to be Christians to justify hateful attitudes, hateful behavior, and hateful actions. Read through history. How many crimes against humanity have been done in the name of God?

The problem I have is this: A Christian cannot choose to justify their actions by quoting a passage in the Bible. The Bible has many, many passages, and many times those quoted the most are quoted without the surrounding context. In addition to finding passages that somehow seem to condone intolerant behavior, there are passages that mandate tolerant behavior. Yet, those are not the ones which are lauded by many fundamentalist Christians as the predominant Word of God.

The point HSSB makes about getting bogged down in the details is dead on, IMO. The Bible contains many messages, but the overall message is of God’s love for us, and the gift of our salvation through the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

LBBC points out ways that Jesus displayed the willingness to defy popular opinion. But, there are some more telling examples, IMO, of Jesus’ true message to us:

Jesus befriended Mary Magdaline

Jesus walked among the lepers

Jesus knew of the betrayals of Peter and Judas and still loved them

We can go back and forth, and back and forth. My issue comes when people assume that because they can find a passage in the Bible to somehow justify behavior that is hateful, discriminatory or bigoted, while ignoring the messages of love that pervade throughout the same Book.

How can you believe that the Bible is dictated word for word from God and only choose to use certain passages to live by?

I hope it wasn't my comments that got you in a tiff. Frankly, those people you outlined that Jesus befriended is exactly what I said. But to say that Jesus condoned/tolerated certain behavior (and I'm not saying you are) is silly. The woman at the well is an example where he condemned the behavior but not the person, he told her to go and sin no more. And to say we should all as Christians just say "do what ever you like", so to speak, is not at all what I have been taught and have learned in God's Word. We are taught to treat others with Love even if we speak out against their behavior. But let's not forget, when Christ cleared the Temple, he didn't walk in and say "okay guys, enough is enough, scram".

With the logic that we shouldn't condemn this behavior, what if the homosexual behavior was with a minor? You may say that it is different, however, from a right and wrong standpoint (IMHO) there is no difference other than one is against man's law. IMO, both are against God's.

[rockmom]

spindoc, my comments were a general statement, and not the result of any one poster's comments.

 

But, as HSSB so ably points out, exactly who's "truth" is the Truth?

 

People seem to forget that the vast majority of those that people use the Bible to condemn are Christians themselves, and are giving, compassionate, loving Christians at that?

 

I guess the basic question is this:

 

Is it our place as Christians to judge? Or is it God's?

[Run To State]

So Hardaway doesn't have a right to an opinion? He should have to apologize for his beliefs? While I don't approve of him "hating" gays, why can't he voice an honest opinion. I heard the interview and he didn't bring it up, the interviewer did. And the hate comment didn't come out until the interviewer called Hardaway "homophobic". Let's just keep saying what we think other people want to hear instead of the truth. We're all so full of political correctness crap, I'm not sure what keeps us from exploding.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

Couldn't agree more HHSDad. Why is it that many on this board came to the Dixie Chicks defense on the premise of free speech, but because what he said isn't pc or trendy, it's an outrage? Let’s be honest here, he has the right to say it and those of you who believe in free speech should back him to the hilt on said right. Fair’s fair, isn’t it?

[rockmom]

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

Couldn't agree more HHSDad. Why is it that many on this board came to the Dixie Chicks defense on the premise of free speech, but because what he said isn't pc or trendy, it's an outrage? Let’s be honest here, he has the right to say it and those of you who believe in free speech should back him to the hilt on said right. Fair’s fair, isn’t it?

 

 

And, isn't the reverse true as well, then?

[h.s.sportsrbest]

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

Couldn't agree more HHSDad. Why is it that many on this board came to the Dixie Chicks defense on the premise of free speech, but because what he said isn't pc or trendy, it's an outrage? Let’s be honest here, he has the right to say it and those of you who believe in free speech should back him to the hilt on said right. Fair’s fair, isn’t it?

Obviously, based on the First Amendment, Tim Hardaway, the Klan, the Dixie Chicks...anyone, has the right to say whatever they want.

 

However, are we really ready to applaud such opinions?

[spindoc]

spindoc, my comments were a general statement, and not the result of any one poster's comments.

 

But, as HSSB so ably points out, exactly who's "truth" is the Truth?

 

People seem to forget that the vast majority of those that people use the Bible to condemn are Christians themselves, and are giving, compassionate, loving Christians at that?

 

I guess the basic question is this:

 

Is it our place as Christians to judge? Or is it God's?

Well, I'll say that it is our responsibility to "discern" the actions/lifestyles of others. Call it what you will. Otherwise, parenting wouldn't matter, just let your kids be the judge of whom they would like to hag out with. There is a certain amount of judgement that goes in to most decisions we make and opinions we all make of others. Jesus says, "judge not lest ye be judged". He didn't say "Don't judge". IMO, he is saying don't expect to be judged by a different measure than you judge others by. It's not like we as humans have the ability to pass judgement to send someone to hell, that is reserved for the Lord, but I think there is always a certain amount of judgement that comes along with being a Christian. And as a parent of a teenager, I would tell him if this issue comes up that, God says homosexuality is wrong and not the lifestyle he should choose. However, I would advise him to use discernment to witness to someone he may know who chose said lifestyle and to do that with Love. If that is judging, well then by all means.

[rockmom]

RTS, no one is saying he had no rights to say what he said. But, to carry your comments about the Dixie Chicks along, those who seem to be so firmly in the "Hardaway is just speaking the truth" camp are the very one's who slammed the Chicks for excercising their right to free speech.

 

Is it a case that a person only has the right to free speech when that person's opinion mirrors one's own?

 

The fact of the matter is that everyone is afforded the right to free speech, within limits.

 

Now, why is it not OK to say "I'm embarrassed to say that the President of the United States is from Texas", but it is OK to say "I hate homosexuals"?

 

To me, there's a marked difference between expressing displeasure and expressing hatred. But, maybe that's just me. I think "hate" is one of the greatest crimes of all, and it's so often justified by quoting the Bible.

[spindoc]

RTS, no one is saying he had no rights to say what he said. But, to carry your comments about the Dixie Chicks along, those who seem to be so firmly in the "Hardaway is just speaking the truth" camp are the very one's who slammed the Chicks for excercising their right to free speech.

 

Is it a case that a person only has the right to free speech when that person's opinion mirrors one's own?

 

The fact of the matter is that everyone is afforded the right to free speech, within limits.

 

Now, why is it not OK to say "I'm embarrassed to say that the President of the United States is from Texas", but it is OK to say "I hate homosexuals"?

 

To me, there's a marked difference between expressing displeasure and expressing hatred. But, maybe that's just me. I think "hate" is one of the greatest crimes of all, and it's so often justified by quoting the Bible.

Not being argumentative, but has anyone done that in this thread? Did I miss that?

[rockmom]

Not being argumentative, but has anyone done that in this thread? Did I miss that?

 

No one has in this thread. The comment that Jim Shue originally made that at least Hardaway stated what he felt without using the Bible to justify his feelings was where this all started.

 

My comments are not directed at any particular individual. I find this to be an issue, and I'm addressing my comments in the context of discussing an issue, not an individual.

 

Does that make sense?:confused:

[spindoc]

No one has in this thread. The comment that Jim Shue originally made that at least Hardaway stated what he felt without using the Bible to justify his feelings was where this all started.

 

My comments are not directed at any particular individual. I find this to be an issue, and I'm addressing my comments in the context of discussing an issue, not an individual.

 

Does that make sense?:confused:

Yes, I just thought I missed something!