Cubs at Reds (6/21 - 6/24)

[jpa2825]

Maybe currently but I think Ted Williams might have been a bit better historically.

 

You're absolutely right. Should have said THE BEST currently and AMONG THE BEST historically. Whether they're true or not, the stories about Williams being able to tell you exactly what part of the baseball he hit are pretty amazing.

[Mack The Knife]

I'm sorry but Joey Votto, (yes as great a hitter as he is and with as great a batting eye as he has), can't be taking pitches 1/2" off the plate with a full count, bases loaded and 2 outs! If you don't think that's a mental thing then I am sorry. Maybe Joey Votto being an airhead is what makes him great at baseball but I think he could be much better if he didn't let the mental part get in his way sometimes, just mho!

 

If he takes it a run scores and the leading hitter or the top RBI man in the NL gets to bat with the bases loaded...

[MJAlltheWay24]

I'm sorry but Joey Votto, (yes as great a hitter as he is and with as great a batting eye as he has), can't be taking pitches 1/2" off the plate with a full count, bases loaded and 2 outs! If you don't think that's a mental thing then I am sorry. Maybe Joey Votto being an airhead is what makes him great at baseball but I think he could be much better if he didn't let the mental part get in his way sometimes, just mho!

 

I'll take Votto exactly as he is. Especially considering what the Reds are paying him vs. what he'd really be worth on the open market.

[plantmanky]

I'll take Votto exactly as he is. Especially considering what the Reds are paying him vs. what he'd really be worth on the open market.

 

Votto makes that baserunning mistake with no one on in front of him, its not as big of a deal. But he knew there was a guy on 2nd base, thats 6 year old tee ball stuff right there, and its not his first, or second, or tenth, or twentieth time for something like that.

[MJAlltheWay24]

Votto makes that baserunning mistake with no one on in front of him, its not as big of a deal. But he knew there was a guy on 2nd base, thats 6 year old tee ball stuff right there, and its not his first, or second, or tenth, or twentieth time for something like that.

 

I totally understand that. But I'm tired of reading gripes on Votto. He's one of the best hitters in the history of the game, does far more good than bad for this time, and is very underpaid.

 

I can live with a few mental errors on the base paths and/or a couple errors in the field. People complain about him way too much.

[plantmanky]

I totally understand that. But I'm tired of reading gripes on Votto. He's one of the best hitters in the history of the game, does far more good than bad for this time, and is very underpaid.

 

I can live with a few mental errors on the base paths and/or a couple errors in the field. People complain about him way too much.

 

To the bolded is he though? Reason I say that is if you project his numbers out, will he be a HOFer? Project it out, his numbers dont come close to Frank Thomas, in almost all but 1 or 2 categories.

[MJAlltheWay24]

To the bolded is he though? Reason I say that is if you project his numbers out, will he be a HOFer? Project it out, his numbers dont come close to Frank Thomas, in almost all but 1 or 2 categories.

 

I'd say that Batting Average & On-Base Percentage are two pretty important categories when comparing hitters, which Votto is better in both.

 

Removing 2018 because the year isn't complete, Votto averages more hits, doubles, triples and walks each year than Thomas did. Votto has several good years left in him too and there is no point in speculating until his career is over. I'd rather base an argument off quantifiable data that is here already.

 

Thomas is a better Power Hitter, sure. But back your arguments with some statistics. Because I can provide them for what I claim.

[Just Hangin Around]

If he takes it a run scores and the leading hitter or the top RBI man in the NL gets to bat with the bases loaded...

 

Except when the umpire calls it a strike. When you are depending on a human to call that pitch a ball all the time you are taking a huge chance. Joey is such a good hitter going the other way that he could have cleaned the bases in this instance but he took what he thought was ball 4, (and it very well could have been), and the ump called it strike 3. My point is that in the situation Joey would have been better served in taking it to left or fouling it off than going down looking with the bases loaded. My only complaint with the situation.

[plantmanky]

I'd say that Batting Average & On-Base Percentage are two pretty important categories when comparing hitters, which Votto is better in both.

 

Removing 2018 because the year isn't complete, Votto averages more hits, doubles, triples and walks each year than Thomas did. Votto has several good years left in him too and there is no point in speculating until his career is over. I'd rather base an argument off quantifiable data that is here already.

 

Thomas is a better Power Hitter, sure. But back your arguments with some statistics. Because I can provide them for what I claim.

 

I took baseball references stats and used them. Vottos current stats, and then took the per 162 games average stats they do over the next 7 years (thomas had 19 mlb years, and that would put Votto at 19 years)

[Just Hangin Around]

I totally understand that. But I'm tired of reading gripes on Votto. He's one of the best hitters in the history of the game, does far more good than bad for this time, and is very underpaid.

 

I can live with a few mental errors on the base paths and/or a couple errors in the field. People complain about him way too much.

 

I think you are totally missing the point on some things. I'll take Joey Votto over just about anybody in today's game but I just wish that he wouldn't be so darn selective in certain situations. Bases loaded, 3 and 2, and 2 outs should be a situation where he should thrive. I'm sure there are stats on how he has done historically in that situation and if you can show me stats that show he usually does then I'll lighten up on him and quit calling him an "airhead".

[MJAlltheWay24]

I think you are totally missing the point on some things. I'll take Joey Votto over just about anybody in today's game but I just wish that he wouldn't be so darn selective in certain situations. Bases loaded, 3 and 2, and 2 outs should be a situation where he should thrive. I'm sure there are stats on how he has done historically in that situation and if you can show me stats that show he usually does then I'll lighten up on him and quit calling him an "airhead".

 

I'm not missing anything. I will just take Votto exactly as he is instead of griping when he happens to not produce.

 

Votto has a .375 BA .505 OBP and 1.089 OPS with runners in scoring position for those who were complaining about him taking pitches.

 

Speaks for itself.

[ColonelCrazy]

I think you are totally missing the point on some things. I'll take Joey Votto over just about anybody in today's game but I just wish that he wouldn't be so darn selective in certain situations. Bases loaded, 3 and 2, and 2 outs should be a situation where he should thrive. I'm sure there are stats on how he has done historically in that situation and if you can show me stats that show he usually does then I'll lighten up on him and quit calling him an "airhead".

 

Votto has had 7 AB's this year with bases loaded. He has 3 hits, including a double, a triple, and a HR. He has 11 RBI's. Average is .429 with bases loaded; .500 OBP with Basese loaded; 1.286 SLG with bases loaded; and 1.786 OPS with bases loaded.

 

With men on & 2 outs: he's 13 for 44 with 2 doubles, 4 HR, 14 RBI. He's batting .295 with .426 OBP, .614 SLG and 1.040 OPS

[ColonelCrazy]

For his career:

 

Bases Loaded: 93 at bats, 33 hits, 8 doubles, 1 triple, 3 HR, 94 RBI, 13 BB, 19 K's, .355 AVG, .416 OBP, .559 SLG, .975 OPS

[MJAlltheWay24]

I took baseball references stats and used them. Vottos current stats, and then took the per 162 games average stats they do over the next 7 years (thomas had 19 mlb years, and that would put Votto at 19 years)

 

I'd rather base it off what they've actually produced, but if you want to go that route, based of of the 162 game average Votto is still better in:

 

Batting

Batting Average

On Base Percentage

Hits

Doubles

Triples

 

For the other statistics, I'm missing where Votto doesn't come close to Thomas, outside of maybe RBIs and probably HRs (7 less).

 

I'll stand by my argument that Frank Thomas is the better Power Hitter and Votto is the better overall hitter until you can provide statistics that prove other wise.

[HammerTime]

Thomas also played in the steroid era.