One true cost of immigration

[capt278]

If you are law abiding, productive, upstanding person...yes, I'm ok with providing a path to citizenship. I'm sorry, I just don't view these folks as the evil, lawless people. Especially the children who had no choice in coming here.

 

As I've said many times, which many seem to ignore, I'm not against immigration reform. I think the hyper focus on, and disdain we hold for immigrants is misplaced, and will never be effective in solving the problem. Every business that employs them and everyone who purchases goods and services from those businesses are just as guilty of breaking the law. Any immigration reform has to start there.

 

Why should they be rewarded for breaking the law? Why should they get in line ahead of those doing it legally?

 

I have said the employers need to be dealt with.

 

Immigration reform has to start with stopping the flow of illegals.

[rjs4470]

Why should they be rewarded for breaking the law? Why should they get in line ahead of those doing it legally?

 

I have said the employers need to be dealt with.

 

Immigration reform has to start with stopping the flow of illegals.

 

Providing a path doesn't necessarily mean cutting the line.

 

And we just disagree on the last part. I think if you deal with the employers who hire them and dry up the jobs/make it harder to work here, I think the flow slows down and becomes easier to deal with. it's kind of a chicken vs egg argument.

[UKMustangFan]

I'm absolutely against sending kids who came over here through no choice of their own away, especially when they're intelligent contributors to society.

 

If they have no criminal records and are productive members of society, why not allow them to start paying their share of taxes (if they aren't already), give them some sort of fine, and allow them to stay here?

[UKMustangFan]

Well it also doesn't show how much money goes back to the Mexican economy either from them either.

 

It also doesn't show this.

How you all claim the cost of things would be higher if not for the cheap labor.

 

Well I know some people who own their own construction businesses and they have about 5 illegal Mexicans working for about 7 dollars an hour running a dozen and stuff. The cost of what they charge isn't any cheaper than when they had actual American workers doing the job and they paid them 15-20 an Hour to do the same thing. The only money they are saving is what they make and it goes right back into their family pocket and building their real. Ice house and buying up property to make money from.

So don't think all this cheap labor save a person money because it's not always the case.

 

That company isn't going to let profits suffer. If they have to go back to paying $15-$20 an hour, they're going to raise prices for customers. Once a company hits a profit level, they aren't going to increase costs and just say, "Well, guess we'll just make less now". The cost will absolutely be passed on to you and I as consumers.

[rjs4470]

I'm absolutely against sending kids who came over here through no choice of their own away, especially when they're intelligent contributors to society.

 

If they have no criminal records and are productive members of society, why not allow them to start paying their share of taxes (if they aren't already), give them some sort of fine, and allow them to stay here?

 

Completely agree. But thats way too simple and not nearly punitive enough for many who view these people as lawless, villainous, freeloaders.

[Jackie Ed]

I get all points stated here, but for the life of me I just can't wrap myhead around the fact that if you are knowingly here illegally how you can obtain any legal rights. How can you apply for scholarships/grants, social security cards, drivers license etc. if you can't prove your American or prove the country you came from to start the legalization process? How can they legally vote? Other than higher ups 100% looking the other way, I.e. corruption.

[UKMustangFan]

I get all points stated here, but for the life of me I just can't wrap myhead around the fact that if you are knowingly here illegally how you can obtain any legal rights. How can you apply for scholarships/grants, social security cards, drivers license etc. if you can't prove your American or prove the country you came from to start the legalization process? How can they legally vote? Other than higher ups 100% looking the other way, I.e. corruption.

 

I never had to prove any of that, did you?

[Jackie Ed]

Well my parents got me SSN card when I was born, which I needed to get a job, to buy a car, to buy a house, to get a credit card, to get a drivers licences, to get a passport, want me to continue? I needed my licences to get health insurance, to pay taxes and registration on my car, to do buisness with the bank? You never needed proper ID for any of that?

[UKMustangFan]

Well my parents got me SSN card when I was born, which I needed to get a job, to buy a car, to buy a house, to get a credit card, to get a drivers licences, to get a passport, want me to continue? I needed my licences to get health insurance, to pay taxes and registration on my car, to do buisness with the bank? You never needed proper ID for any of that?

 

That's not what you said at all. You said how can they get those things without proving you're an American. I was never asked if I was an American citizen for any of the things you listed.

[Jackie Ed]

By having a Ssc or drivers license. That's proving you're legally and American, correct?

[UKMustangFan]

By having a Ssc or drivers license. That's proving you're legally and American, correct?

 

I don't think a driver's license proves one is American, but I could be wrong.

[capt278]

By having a Ssc or drivers license. That's proving you're legally and American, correct?

 

It doesn't matter to some. They are all for letting those that have broken the law by entering the country illegally to do as they please.

[UKMustangFan]

It doesn't matter to some. They are all for letting those that have broken the law by entering the country illegally to do as they please.

 

No one said anything even remotely similar to that.

 

If you actually want to have an intelligent discussion, you should really stop misrepresenting what people are saying.

[plantmanky]

I don't think a driver's license proves one is American, but I could be wrong.

 

Correct, you can have a driver's license and not be a Citizen of the US.

[rjs4470]

It doesn't matter to some. They are all for letting those that have broken the law by entering the country illegally to do as they please.

 

Never said that. My whole point of contention is that I feel we need to focus on the folks hiring illegals as much as if not more than the illegals. Business owners and even us as consumers have created an environment that's has become dependent on illegals. Cheap labor, cheaper goods and services. Yet it's the illegals that we villainize and complain about. And the system has become so dependent on illegal labor, that it's becoming almost impossible to eliminate that dependence quickly. And again, illegals did not create the system...they are just taking advantage of what is there. So let's fix the system as a whole so everyone wins, while tightening up the borders and getting better at enforcing the laws we have.

 

And none of that means "let them do as they please".