I have been barred from Communion

[mexitucky]

I don't understand your anger? If you are Catholic then you understand if you openly support things contrary to Church DOGMA then you are banned from Sacrements? This has always been the rule? Most people just keep their opinions to themself so its a non issue. It only becomes an issue when you are a public figure or make your opinion public to the church.

 

I am aware of that. I don't want the church to change it's dogma. However, are you cool w/ the fact that you can believe that a law is not correct, and not be able to state your opinion b/c the church says so. Not a church law, but a secular law? If I get this straight, no Catholic should ever become a lawyer or judge unless they are going to defend clients, or decide cases based on the laws of the Catholic church?

[mexitucky]

This whole issue is why I don't openly support or disapprove. The issue is a non factor to me. I'm not going to fight hard one way or the other. My understanding has always been as long as you don't speak out against the church teachings or make it public in a way to go against the Church, the Church turns a blind eye.

 

As long as the government doesn't start forcing the church to marry couples then this is a fight I'm not fighting.

 

That's fine, that's your right. I am unable to listen to a priest hail the ending of Catholicism b/c the DOMA may be ruled unconstitutional. It isn't accurate. Now, Obamacare...that is a religious fight worth fighting.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

As to Mex's post, could a Catholic believe that a particular law is unconstitutional, but also believe in the "universal truth" the Church teaches? (This doesn't appear to be the case here, but hypothetically)

 

Can they? Yes, obviously. Should they, in the eyes of the Catholic Church and its teachings? No, I don't believe so.

 

My next question is why does the Church concern itself with secular laws?

 

I think the Church's point of view is that they are interested in the salvation of MANKIND...not just the salvation of Catholics.

 

Is one more likely to go to heaven if they lobbied for laws that would impose Church doctrine on others?

 

Might sound like a copout, but I don't know the answer...I don't know how God judges us, apart from saying that I believe God looks to our hearts when He judges us, and I think He will decide on our salvation based on our intent, how we acted on those intentions, and whether our love of God and desire to do His will was our motivation in life.

[ColonelCrazy]

I think I'm kind of torn when it comes to stances on gay marriage. I certainly can understand those who argue that DOMA is unconstitutional...but as a Catholic, I am definitely against same-sex marriage, as I do believe that it clearly flies in the face of the sacrament of marriage. I still don't know how to feel about that.

 

What do homosexuals do to "fly in the face of the sacrament of marriage" that heterosexuals have not done for years?

[mexitucky]

What do homosexuals do to "fly in the face of the sacrament of marriage" that heterosexuals have not done for years?

 

Lay down w/ other men. That would be the opposite of man v woman for procreation that the church teaches (and again, which I support.)

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

What do homosexuals do to "fly in the face of the sacrament of marriage" that heterosexuals have not done for years?

 

Trust me, you don't need to argue with me that there aren't PLENTY of heterosexuals that completely make a mockery of marriage. I agree with that point entirely.

 

I believe that one of the roots of marriage is the potential to procreate and bring forth new life. That is why "accept children lovingly from God" is part of the Catholic wedding vows. With homosexuality, procreation is impossible.

[UKMustangFan]

You state you're not sure where you stand on it despite the Church's stance. Is that enough of a reason to be against it in your opinion?

 

Absolutely not. Are you trying to say that you agree with every single aspect/stance the Church takes?

[SportsGuy41017]

I was barred before my first communion, due to being a very bad kid.......I just bring my own wine on sunday's

 

I'm sitting next to you on Sunday's from now on, lol.

[SportsGuy41017]

The church states that if you support this civily, then you are barred.

So I guess Francis is barred too? He has said in the past that he is open to civil unions, just not same sex marriage.

[Clyde]

Absolutely not. Are you trying to say that you agree with every single aspect/stance the Church takes?

 

You must be new around here. Good to meet you.

[Habib]

Can they? Yes, obviously. Should they, in the eyes of the Catholic Church and its teachings? No, I don't believe so.

 

That seems to bring up the point Mex and I are getting at: How can a Catholic person be a lawyer or judge or politico? One could believe DOMA is unconstitutional because it wasn't written within the confines of the Constitution, but could still oppose same-sex marriages. You're saying a dutiful Catholic couldn't make that distinction?

 

I think the Church's point of view is that they are interested in the salvation of MANKIND...not just the salvation of Catholics.

 

Of course, and maybe this is for another thread, but how do laws increase the salvation of mankind? Laws can't force people to believe, they can only circumscribe certain behaviors.

[Getslow]

That seems to bring up the point Mex and I are getting at: How can a Catholic person be a lawyer or judge or politico? One could believe DOMA is unconstitutional because it wasn't written within the confines of the Constitution, but could still oppose same-sex marriages. You're saying a dutiful Catholic couldn't make that distinction?

 

I agree and I actually think it's the most compelling conservative argument coming from any direction: that DOMA is a massive Congressional overreach over an area that the Constitution grants the federal government no power over.

 

But hey, put me in the camp that believes Catholicism will always eventually butt heads with practical governance in a democratic republic like the USA. Not sure where that leaves all of us, but nobody said finding a way to live a life in imitation of Christ was going to be easy.

[UKMustangFan]

You must be new around here. Good to meet you.

 

I forgot asking Clyde questions, or for his opinions, was strictly forbidden on here. :banghead:

[Qwerty1278]

Wow talk about timing. I am a member of 7 hills church right off of Turfway and our Easter service was about communion. Main message was that if Jesus himself sat with sinners and claimed in the bible that he was here to save the sinners, why would he exclude them. The way I see it if Jesus can sit with the sinners and share a meal with sinners or the "unworthy" so can I. The church has no right to say you can't sit at God's table when Jesus purpose on earth was to bring people to God.

[Bert]

For those Catholics who support Civil "same-sex" marriages, let me warn you. Doing so will bar you from being able to receive Holy Communion. I have been informed that my stance that the DOMA is Unconstitutional has now basically made me a pariah. I guess going to church on Sundays and living the best I can in the image of Christ does nothing if it goes against man-made Cannon law.

 

Call your bishop, vicar general or your judicial vicar. While the church does not agree with your view, I don't believe such a view would bar one from communion.