Has the proliferation of the spread exposed poor tackling or caused it?

[Hellbird]

It's tough to unlearn something, if it's not drilled over and over in practices.

That is true, but I also think a huge part of it is once the kids get in High School they very seldom do any tackling drills in practice.

 

I know that has been my biggest concern for my sons team watching practice. I don't know if it is because coaches are afraid of getting some of their key players hurt or what. But they simply don't practice it at all.

 

They actually learned the proper way to tackle in pee wee (speaking of my son anyway) but not in HS. I don't think the spread offense has caused poor tackling but has exposed it. When they wouldn't play spread offense you would have more defenders in the bx which meant more defenders hitting the ball carrier and arm tackles could be masked by the number of kids hitting the ball carrier. Spread offense has created more one on one tackling and that is when it gets to be a glaring deficiency.

[Ram]

I have developed several thoughts on the subjects over the years while watching poor tackling:

1. I don't think the passing game has much to do with it. I have seen poor tackling from most teams, versus run dominate teams just as much as spread teams.

2. I can live with the rational that the proliferation of the spread offense has exposed what may have been there before. By spreading the defense out, great athletes have space to avoid tacklers.

3. ChiefSmoke made a valid point concerning speed. Speed on defense will equate to players being in proper position to form tackle. But, the flaw I see with that answer as it pertains to this question is, it is commonly believed that the level of speed has dramatically improved over the last ten years or so, but it is also commonly believed that the quality of tackling has decreased in that time frame. So, speed can not be the only reason.

4. High school practice sessions have become more like a college practice with less tackling to the ground, and only "pop" tacking (players stoping after the initial contact). The old analogy of "you play the way you practice" may be true. I see a lot of players in game make initial contact, but then stop their feet, just like they do in a "pop" practice. I think the main reason tackling is bad in games, is because they practice that way.

5. It seems that tackling is taught differently now then in the past. Used to a player was instructed to wrap their arms around the waist of the ball carrier, pick them up slightly, drop them on their back, and fall on top of them. It seems now they are taught, what I call, the "Death Roll", given the name after the way alligators rolls. Players now grab a ball carrier, then the tackler falls to the ground and in a rolling motion tries to take the ball carrier with them to the ground.

6. I have always thought tackling was a mentality. The great defensive players really enjoy hard tackles. It seems that high school players more low key, not as vocal, high intensity players as they used to be. They may lack the tackling mentality and only be players placed on defense. You don't see very many of the Mike Singletarys with the wide eyes and intense play on defense.

7. NFL. High school players see NFL players try to knock players down instead of wrapping them up, and try to emulate them.

[rjs4470]

One of the other issues, is it is really hard for defenses to get good looks against offenses. At most schools the scout team offense is 2nd and third stringers and there is a significant drop in talent. Consequently, defenses rarely get to practice at game speed. Offenses can overcome this disparity, since they are automatically one step ahead at the snap. Teams that are really deep and don't play many both ways get more game speed looks in practice.

[Harry Doyle]

One of the other issues, is it is really hard for defenses to get good looks against offenses. At most schools the scout team offense is 2nd and third stringers and there is a significant drop in talent. Consequently, defenses rarely get to practice at game speed. Offenses can overcome this disparity, since they are automatically one step ahead at the snap. Teams that are really deep and don't play many both ways get more game speed looks in practice.

 

This is so true. I know a couple teams in central Kentucky who on defensive days literally do not go a team defense period during the week (scout offense vs. starting defense) simply because its a disaster waiting to happen because of personnel reasons (not enough quality/physically mature/ lack of ability, etc) to give the starting defense any kind of look. So, what's their team defensive periods consist of? A lot of mental work towards defensive alignment, stunt review on trash cans and 7v7 skelly periods that consist of their right corner and right safety running routes vs their left corner and left safety, then switch. Why? Because those are the kids that provide the best look.

 

Long gone are they days where week in and week out you prep for a team all week that stays in one or even two formations. Teams these days literally give you tons of offensive looks from a formation standpoint (in hopes of finding a numbers advantage against the defense), so while you can't (and, shouldn't) worry about everything the opposing team will run at you; you better be able to line up and adjust correctly.

 

With saying that, I believe (and, know) that a lot of teams focus on that aspect of the gam which I would say takes away from tackling fundamentals.

 

FYI, the teams I'm speaking of happen to do 10-15 minute tackling circuits twice a week at least (split up by position groups, four different stations and open field tackling is one of those).

 

Also, for what it's worth, the two teams I'm referring to are giving up 14 and 22 points/ game respectively. While not stellar, it's not to shabby either. And I know for a fact that playing teams of better athletic ability who play any type of spread attack is an absolute nightmare for both.

 

1) you can't simulate it.

2) you can practice open field tackling all you want within your own team, but try caging a pig and chasing it all week, then cage a rabbit or chicken on Friday and see how well you do.

 

....same concept in terms of open field tackling.

[IBleedOrange]

It has completely taken the physicality out of the game. Kids are afraid to hit someone square in the mouth and you mix that with this generation of kids (twitter, facebook , xbox, instagram,and more twitter) and you have several missed tackles and kids with not enough toughness to want to go through another guy. Gone are the days when teams just line up and run the ball off tackle. Players don't practice against straight on runs so that is why when a team plays a downhill running team and their own offense is in 4 wide every play they normally get blown out. Example Tates Creek/ Harlan County, it was a debacle.

[Sandman]

I've watched a lot of high school games over the past few years. I have noticed a lot teams with poor tackling. Lunging at ball carriers or going for the knock out blow. Has the emphasis on defending the pass as much the run in practice exposed poor tackling techniques in players or has it caused it?

 

What I mean is, back in the day (and for anybody born before me, if you can remember high school you should count your blessings on having your mental health at your advanced ages) we prepared for games against predominantly ground based offenses. Not only were we doing tackling circuits, but in "Team" we were shedding the blocks of scout linemen to get to the ball carrier. We hit all of the time.

 

As the game has evolved, there is less hitting in practice. Technique is lost because of lack of repetition. As offenses have spread out, athletes have been given more and more space and angles to make plays with the ball. As a result, tackles are being missed all over the field. Are more tackles being missed because of the evolution of the game and players are just not able to break down and make the tackle due to the space they have to defend, or is it just exposing the fact that teams don't give enough reps to tackling?

 

Lots of long posts and good questions this week, Mex. You're certainly stirring good debates though. I like it.

 

You've gotten some good responses from guys that spend a lot more time studying this type stuff than I do, but I'll throw one idea out there that won't be very popular:

 

Based on what I've seen in NKY and Cincy the last few years, too many schools are trying to two platoon, or mini platoon kids, and a lot of schools are playing kids who just aren't very good.

 

Schools like Highlands, most Cincy D-I schools, maybe CovCAth, have enough depth of quality players to pull off platooning. Most of the others are fooling themselves if they attempt it.

[barrel]

In theory two platooning should help. The idea is that even though that kid would not normally be a starter all he does is rep defense. Tackling is taught different then when many of us played.

 

Going back to what chiefsmoke said tackling in large part is getting where you are suppose to be. It's also a mindset of getting you nose in there. Kids also do what they see which on the college and pro level is a bunch throwing the body in there and not wrapping.

[rjs4470]

One other thing to consider, is I can remember this same argument being brought up in the late 80's, when I was playing football, so this argument isn't new. Tackling is taught a little differently, but I see schools probably spending more time in tackling circuits and form tackling than I remember doing. There isn't as much live tackling in practice, which is probably a good thing. Hitting live every day is physically demanding and does lead to injuries. I do think some of the bad form you see comes from poor coaching at youth levels. If you teach kids bad technique from age 6 on, by the time they hit middle school or high school, it's tough to unteach that. Also, at the youth levels, there is way too much blitzing and stunting going on. Kids (especially linebackers) aren't taught to read keys, and get in good position or how to get off blocks. They blitz every play, and yes they make a few big plays in the backfield when the blitz is to the right gap, but if they blitz the wrong gap they are completely out of the play. They don't learn to work sideline to sideline, or get many open field tackle opportunities. D-lineman aren't taught gap control either....they are picking a side and going. This results in kids constantly being out of position, or chasing plays, which results in a lot of reaching, arm tackling, or jersey tackling.

[Clyde]

My guess is that many of us lamenting today's tackling have forgotten what it actually was back then.

 

"In my day......."

[mexitucky]

Lots of long posts and good questions this week, Mex. You're certainly stirring good debates though. I like it.

 

You've gotten some good responses from guys that spend a lot more time studying this type stuff than I do, but I'll throw one idea out there that won't be very popular:

 

Based on what I've seen in NKY and Cincy the last few years, too many schools are trying to two platoon, or mini platoon kids, and a lot of schools are playing kids who just aren't very good.

 

Schools like Highlands, most Cincy D-I schools, maybe CovCAth, have enough depth of quality players to pull off platooning. Most of the others are fooling themselves if they attempt it.

 

This is something that doesn't get talked about enough and is a great point. Many times defensive players aren't as good of football players as those in the past b/c those in the past played both ways. Now you limit your best football players to one side of the ball. Great point. Sometimes copy catting isn't the best way to do it.

[mexitucky]

My guess is that many of us lamenting today's tackling have forgotten what it actually was back then.

 

"In my day......."

 

All you have to do is read any Oscar Robertson interview to see this in action. I posted this up b/c the fact that players are in space more makes missed tackles much more noticeable. Back in your day, before they could throw the ball forward (j/k buddy), you would be able to routinely get a scrum to the ball and any missed tackles were hard to see.