Separation of Church and State gone amok?

[Getslow]

How far are we going to go in order to keep church & state separate?

 

I think we'll find out soon enough. The fastest growing religious demographic in the United States is people who answer with "no religion" when asked -- not necessarily atheists, just non-religious.

[theguru]

I think we'll find out soon enough. The fastest growing religious demographic in the United States is people who answer with "no religion" when asked -- not necessarily atheists, just non-religious.

 

Sounds like the minority is growing and ready to fight.

[mexitucky]

Sounds like the minority is growing and ready to fight.

 

I didn't mean to come across as condescending. My point is that sometimes there are fights worth picking and then there are fights just for the sake of fighting. In my opinion, this is a fight just for the sake of fighting. As I stated earlier, most atheists I know laugh at the religious as holding onto relics of an older time.

[theguru]

mex, it is all in good fun.

 

The Atheists I come across are normally a mix of fighters and ones that laugh at the relics of an older time like you pointed out. Of course, all the salesmen I come across lick their chops when we talk religion...

[mexitucky]

I didn't mean to come across as condescending. My point is that sometimes there are fights worth picking and then there are fights just for the sake of fighting. In my opinion, this is a fight just for the sake of fighting. As I stated earlier, most atheists I know laugh at the religious as holding onto relics of an older time.

 

Let me say this. I don't care if someone wants to believe in nothing. I really don't care. I don't see the reason to try and mess with traditions or beliefs of others when it comes to this, or symbols. I agree that Public schools shouldn't have prayer time, they shouldn't have bible study. I don't believe that people should have religious beliefs thrown in their face, just like I don't care if a person is a Democrat or Republican. However, many of our traditions are comingled w/ religious beliefs. Why has Merry Christmas and the whole Christmas season become the "holiday season?" The whole tradition of giving gifts was developed around celebrating the birth of Christ. It is a Christian holiday. Now, almost our whole society (I always felt bad for my friends who were Jehovah Witnesses, they missed out on a lot of things i.e. Halloween) wants in on the gift exchanging part of it. So, since they want in, Christians have to change how they view the holiday and how it is named. It's like me wanting in on some Jewish holidays and pushing to have their names changed from Hebrew to some secular title so that I don't feel different. I'm frustrated that society is moving to everyone has to include everyone in the way that they want to be included as opposed to, this is how this group celebrates, join if you'd like?

[Jumper_Dad]

Same thing on our license plates, no business being there. Do I care one way or the other? Not much, but I see others point when yet another example comes to light and I see why at some point "the minority" as mex put it either stands up and fights or gives up.

 

When it comes to issues like this the non-religious/atheists/agnostics find the religious majority to be condescending and that is the vibe I get from this thread.

You have to pay extra for that, it is a special platle like the UK, Fallen Officer or Coal Plates....In God We Trust plate is an option you may choose and pay for.

[Alabama Larry]

mex, it is all in good fun.

 

The Atheists I come across are normally a mix of fighters and ones that laugh at the relics of an older time like you pointed out. Of course, all the salesmen I come across lick their chops when we talk religion...

yep, and I would walk miles over hot coals to get into a debate with these chop lickers. My favorite saying..."what if I'm right about Jesus and they are wrong, what happens, and what if they are right and I'm wrong?"

[theguru]

You have to pay extra for that, it is a special platle like the UK, Fallen Officer or Coal Plates....In God We Trust plate is an option you may choose and pay for.

 

I don't mean a vanity plate, I mean the sticker that is appearing on regular plates now.

[Jumper_Dad]

I don't mean a vanity plate, I mean the sticker that is appearing on regular plates now.

I was wrong, the plates with In God We Trust cost the same as Unbridled Spirit plates it is your choice which one you want. They are legal because in Congress declared "In God We Trust" to be the national motto in 1956 according to the press release when they were released.

 

'In God We Trust' license plates to be available in January | Politics and Government | Kentucky.com

 

[theguru]

So even if it is by choice we have tax dollars going to fund "In God We Trust" on our license plates. No way no how is that right...

[hoops5]

So is it wrong that our tax dollars fund military chaplains and buildings for them to worship on our military bases overseas?

[theguru]

So is it wrong that our tax dollars fund military chaplains and buildings for them to worship on our military bases overseas?

 

Put me with leatherneck on this one, he said quote:

 

A stronger argument by the anti establishment crowd would be on the presence of govt paid military chaplains and places of worship on military bases, etc. James Madison would have likely agreed with them (Government Chaplains - Are Official Government Chaplains Constitutional?).

[Habib]

So even if it is by choice we have tax dollars going to fund "In God We Trust" on our license plates. No way no how is that right...

 

I don't understand why people feel the need to mix government and religion. Why not just a bumper sticker or a plate frame? Does it make it holier if the government is involved?

[Bluegrasscard]

Marines fight to protect crosses at Camp Pendleton as atheist groups seek removal | Fox News

 

If this violates the separation, do military chaplains? Does the holding of any voluntary religious services on federal ground?

 

They used to hold mass in the Capital building.

 

The Constitution prohibits establishing a national (mandatory) religion. Nothing more.

 

The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution do draw from natural law. Natural law is higher than positive law. Since an atheist does not believe in natural law then they have no real standing in the US.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

OK, I am sure that last statement will not fly with some. But what rights should a self animated blob of flesh and bone have?

[theguru]

I don't understand why people feel the need to mix government and religion. Why not just a bumper sticker or a plate frame? Does it make it holier if the government is involved?

 

Exactly, and furthermore tax dollars don't have to pay for bumper stickers and plate frames.