Reds need more hitters like Dunn, not fewer

[thebigfella23]

I simply said he is part of the reason and I said above that my anger with him clouds the good things he does. Fact is, for all the good things he does, he doesn't seem to do the little things to drive the runs in with 2 outs and runners in scoring position.

 

How many sac flys does Dunn have?

 

While you could pick apart ANY great player, it's those little things that really bother me. He has no desire to make himself any better, he is happy just staying the same. That's what bothers me, because he could likely be even better and just doesn't seem to care.

 

That is the way I have also felt about Dunn. I like the guys who go out there and put their bodies on the line for their team. They want to get better. You never hear about Dunn going back after an AB and looking at film or taking extra swings in the cage in between AB's.

[Clyde]

That is the way I have also felt about Dunn. I like the guys who go out there and put their bodies on the line for their team.

 

How do you quanity "bodies on the line?"

 

Or is that just another nebulous judgment? Is that like saying "he doesn't care about winning?"

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

So let me get this straight. A low number of Sac Flies (albeit only ONE way to score a run) indicates a player is lazy? Is that what you're trying to say?

 

Again, style vs substance. Do I care how he knocks in AND scores runs? No. Are you telling me I should?

 

You can appreciate whatever you like in players, I'm simply saying that the Reds would be making a horrid, HORRID mistake if they sign him to a huge contract.

 

I can only hope that another team outbids the Reds and takes him off their hands. The Reds would suffer in the short term, but even a player with less power and less RBI's would end up being a better player in the long run for this team.

[Clyde]

but even a player with less power and less RBI's would end up being a better player in the long run for this team.

 

How?

[thebigfella23]

Just found this article and found this stat. Since baseball loves its stats.

 

As of 2005, Dunn had 8, I will repeat that, EIGHT sac flys in 2,450 plate appearances.

 

EIGHT!!

 

My math is bad, but that basically translates to 1-2 sac flys a year. Way to go Dunner, that is worth 90 million right there.

 

As of 2005, he had a batting average of .205 with runners in scoring position. That is downright awful.

 

Does this mean he doesn't work on things and try and get better? Of course not, but it does tell you that whatever he is doing or not doing ISN'T working. Hard to not have the perception of him as a lazy player with stats like that.

 

http://www.publicradio.org/columns/kpcc/baseball/2005/07/the_art_of_the.html

 

:lol::lol::lol: That is great!

[Clyde]

Homeless and Cardnation: You guys do realize the object of the game is to score runs, right? There are no Russian judges sitting on the sidelines assigning point values every time a runner crosses the plate.

[LRCW]

Just found this article and found this stat. Since baseball loves its stats.

 

As of 2005, Dunn had 8, I will repeat that, EIGHT sac flys in 2,450 plate appearances.

 

EIGHT!!

 

My math is bad, but that basically translates to 1-2 sac flys a year. Way to go Dunner, that is worth 90 million right there.

 

As of 2005, he had a batting average of .205 with runners in scoring position. That is downright awful.

 

Does this mean he doesn't work on things and try and get better? Of course not, but it does tell you that whatever he is doing or not doing ISN'T working. Hard to not have the perception of him as a lazy player with stats like that.

 

http://www.publicradio.org/columns/kpcc/baseball/2005/07/the_art_of_the.html

 

 

 

So I'm assuming we can say the same thing about Soriano. I mean he has to be lazy since he has failed to improved on is OBP or strike out rate. He simply refuses to try and make himself a better lead off hitter.

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

Homeless and Cardnation: You guys do realize the object of the game is to score runs, right? There are no Russian judges sitting on the sidelines assigning point values every time a runner crosses the plate.

 

You do realize that the White Sox won the World Series with pitching. While they had some nice hitters on that team, they were by no means a BIG TIME power hitting team.

 

They did it with small ball, it's called the little things that win you games more often than not.

 

Is it any surprise when the Sox had Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Frank Thomas, Paul Konerko, etc, etc. They DIDN'T win anything. Yet, they get rid of those guys, focus on fundamentals, pitching and bingo, they win. Shocker.

 

Dunn can't do the fundamental things and seems to show little interest in getting the runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs or getting them in WITHOUT hitting a home run.

 

So the Reds would be better off with a sound "fundamental" player as opposed to someone who hits the ball in the Ohio River every couple days.

[Clyde]

You do realize that the White Sox won the World Series with pitching. While they had some nice hitters on that team, they were by no means a BIG TIME power hitting team.

 

They did it with small ball, it's called the little things that win you games more often than not.

 

Is it any surprise when the Sox had Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Frank Thomas, Paul Konerko, etc, etc. They DIDN'T win anything. Yet, they get rid of those guys, focus on fundamentals, pitching and bingo, they win. Shocker.

 

 

How many Paul Konerkos are there in the majors? Because the one on the World Series team didn't play small ball. He had 40 bombs, 98 runs, 100 RBIs, a high SLG% and a strong OBP%. Give me a minute to think but that sure does sound like someone we know.

 

Their main lineup produced the following Homer numbers:

 

18, 40, 15, 22, 16, 0, 13, 31, and 23.

 

That's small ball?

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

While we could have a field day discussion Soriano's attitude off the field, history of complaining about batting a certain place in the order and that legendary defense he displays from time to time. On the field, he does his job. Is he worth 219 billion over a 20 year contract or whatever the Cubs signed him to? Probably not, but more often than not, he produces.

 

His stats don't lie: He is a power hitter, that hits for average and steals bases. He doesn't draw many walks and strikes out a lot, but the positives he brings outweigh the negatives.

[spindoc]

You can argue it all you want, but the rating system they use proves otherwise.

No, I typically watch the outfielders that the Reds face, which in a roundabout way is nearly every outfielder in the NL.

I don't care what his numbers say. Do you not see how many balls he doesn't get to? Or how many balls he fails to field cleanly. Those don't go in the book as errors because he doesn't "fail" to make a play. But to qualify him as a "better than average" outfielder is to be blinded by the numbers. That's no different than saying that for a particular pitcher doesn't have a problem with runners stealing second base on him, when in fact he leads the league in doubles given up. Half the story. I am a Dunn fan and believe he should be extended and like his offensive game and production, but there is no numbers analysis that can sell me that he's one of the better LF in the game. He's no different than George Foster, who said "They pay me to hit, not play outstanding defense".

[LRCW]

While we could have a field day discussion Soriano's attitude off the field, history of complaining about batting a certain place in the order and that legendary defense he displays from time to time. On the field, he does his job. Is he worth 219 billion over a 20 year contract or whatever the Cubs signed him to? Probably not, but more often than not, he produces.

 

His stats don't lie: He is a power hitter, that hits for average and steals bases. He doesn't draw many walks and strikes out a lot, but the positives he brings outweigh the negatives.

 

 

You're killing me. His positives outweigh the negatives, but Dunn's don't? Why about my question of him being lazy and not caring since he hasn't improved on his OBP and strike out rate? How is that any different than the argument you made about Dunn and his numbers?

[LRCW]

No, I typically watch the outfielders that the Reds face, which in a roundabout way is nearly every outfielder in the NL.

I don't care what his numbers say. Do you not see how many balls he doesn't get to? Or how many balls he fails to field cleanly. Those don't go in the book as errors because he doesn't "fail" to make a play. But to qualify him as a "better than average" outfielder is to be blinded by the numbers. That's no different than saying that for a particular pitcher doesn't have a problem with runners stealing second base on him, when in fact he leads the league in doubles given up. Half the story. I am a Dunn fan and believe he should be extended and like his offensive game and production, but there is no numbers analysis that can sell me that he's one of the better LF in the game. He's no different than George Foster, who said "They pay me to hit, not play outstanding defense".

 

 

That's what the range factor ratings are all about. :confused:

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

How many Paul Konerkos are there in the majors? Because the one on the World Series team didn't play small ball. He had 40 bombs, 98 runs, 100 RBIs, a high SLG% and a strong OBP%. Give me a minute to think but that sure does sound like someone we know.

 

Their main lineup produced the following Homer numbers:

 

18, 40, 15, 22, 16, 0, 13, 31, and 23.

 

That's small ball?

 

While the Sox were 4th in baseball that year in home runs, you can enjoy reading these stats and how they did the little things more often than not to help them win games.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/small-ball-whos-who/

[Clyde]

No, I typically watch the outfielders that the Reds face, which in a roundabout way is nearly every outfielder in the NL.

I don't care what his numbers say. Do you not see how many balls he doesn't get to? Or how many balls he fails to field cleanly.

 

The following disputes your belief:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dunnad01.shtml

 

The column marked "RFg" indicates how many assists and putouts he has per game. Its above the league average.