Frustration with Kool-Aid Drinkers

[HHSDad]

Recently, in the Misery Index thread, I voiced my frustration with people who believe that their side is always right and the other side is always wrong. It really wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just something that had been bothering me. I'm sure that not feeling well didn't help.

 

Nonetheless, I'm having more and more issues with this. And knowing I'll be hearing it for the next 6 months unless I move to a cave is not comforting. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a conservative who usually vote Republican, but that's usually because I feel that the R candidate is less wrong than the D candidate. I too have found myself taking extreme positions, because I'm listening to the opposite extreme. Sure, I think we need to protect the environment, but I'm not willing to roll back technology 1000 years. And I think we have an obligation to help those who are unable to help themselves, but can we at least make that distinction?

 

What I'm trying to get at is, is it really that hard to see the other side's point? Is it not possible to say, "Boy, my side screwed that one up!" How do we get to the point that we work together for the greater good and not just be cheerleaders for our respective parties?

[woodsrider]

Recently, in the Misery Index thread, I voiced my frustration with people who believe that their side is always right and the other side is always wrong. It really wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just something that had been bothering me. I'm sure that not feeling well didn't help.

 

Nonetheless, I'm having more and more issues with this. And knowing I'll be hearing it for the next 6 months unless I move to a cave is not comforting. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a conservative who usually vote Republican, but that's usually because I feel that the R candidate is less wrong than the D candidate. I too have found myself taking extreme positions, because I'm listening to the opposite extreme. Sure, I think we need to protect the environment, but I'm not willing to roll back technology 1000 years. And I think we have an obligation to help those who are unable to help themselves, but can we at least make that distinction?

 

What I'm trying to get at is, is it really that hard to see the other side's point? Is it not possible to say, "Boy, my side screwed that one up!" How do we get to the point that we work together for the greater good and not just be cheerleaders for our respective parties?

Very well said.

[halfback20]

I side with democrats a lot, however I am also very conservative on certain issues. I may not show that all the time, but that is only because I love to argue. :lol:

[AcesFull]

Since your post in the other thread was in response to one of mine, I am assuming that you are lumping me in with the so-called "Kool-Aid drinkers." If so, you are way off base.

 

Nobody has been more critical of John McCain than me (although Run To State is a close second) and I have also condemned Bush for failing to use his veto pen to control spending when Republicans had control of Congress.

 

There comes a point in every campaign, however, when you either decide to cast a protest vote, stay at home on election day, or decide which candidate will do the least damage if elected. With the current slate of candidates, the kind of gridlock that will probably characterize a McCain administration is looking pretty good compared to the alternatives.

 

I would prefer somebody who would toe a traditional conservative line but that is just not going to happen in 2008.

 

As for saying, "Boy, my side really screwed up!" - I do not recall any conservative posters defending the out of control spending that has happened on Bush's watch. Nor do I recall anybody defending Nixon or Ford in the misery index thread.

 

As for screw-ups, I have been extremely disappointed in the lack of strong conservative leadership in this country. With Newt Gingrich doing global warming commercials with Nancy Pelosi, John McCain running as the Republican candidate, Ronald Reagan gone to a place of no return, strong Republican leaders seem to be a thing of the past.

 

If you are expecting conservatives to find much with which they agree coming from the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, or Barack Obama, I guess I just don't get your point. If I agreed with the liberal philosophy, then I would have no reason to be a conservative.

[HHSDad]

Like I said Aces, it wasn't really directed at anyone, it just came out in your thread.

 

I know partisanship is nothing new. My frustration stems more from what I hear outside of BGP, especially from our politicians. I'm not asking anyone to change their spots; I have a heck of a time myself with wanting to slam someone I strongly disagree with instead of seeing where they may be right. We're at that point that we can't expect Congress to do anything really productive. Every move seems to be political in nature. Whether you're a conservative or liberal or somewhere in-between, we need to demand more from our lawmakers.

[IM4THEHOUNDS]

Since your post in the other thread was in response to one of mine, I am assuming that you are lumping me in with the so-called "Kool-Aid drinkers." If so, you are way off base.

 

Nobody has been more critical of John McCain than me (although Run To State is a close second) and I have also condemned Bush for failing to use his veto pen to control spending when Republicans had control of Congress.There comes a point in every campaign, however, when you either decide to cast a protest vote, stay at home on election day, or decide which candidate will do the least damage if elected. With the current slate of candidates, the kind of gridlock that will probably characterize a McCain administration is looking pretty good compared to the alternatives.I would prefer somebody who would toe a traditional conservative line but that is just not going to happen in 2008.

As for saying, "Boy, my side really screwed up!" - I do not recall any conservative posters defending the out of control spending that has happened on Bush's watch. Nor do I recall anybody defending Nixon or Ford in the misery index thread.

 

As for screw-ups, I have been extremely disappointed in the lack of strong conservative leadership in this country. With Newt Gingrich doing global warming commercials with Nancy Pelosi, John McCain running as the Republican candidate, Ronald Reagan gone to a place of no return, strong Republican leaders seem to be a thing of the past.

If you are expecting conservatives to find much with which they agree coming from the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, or Barack Obama, I guess I just don't get your point. If I agreed with the liberal philosophy, then I would have no reason to be a conservative.

 

Ditto . . . well said.:thumb:

[halfback20]

I don't recall Aces or RTS ever being very critical of John McCain. I recall them being extremely critical of Obama though and Hillary as well.

[Run To State]

I don't recall Aces or RTS ever being very critical of John McCain. I recall them being extremely critical of Obama though and Hillary as well.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

 

For starters I've called him a RINO for a loooong time. I've said he isn't exactly a friend of gun owners, IMO. I think he's weak on illegal immigration.

Problem is, the other two are worse.

[HHSDad]

For starters I've called him a RINO for a loooong time. I've said he isn't exactly a friend of gun owners, IMO. I think he's weak on illegal immigration.

Problem is, the other two are worse.

Problem is, I agree.

[Run To State]

Like I said Aces, it wasn't really directed at anyone, it just came out in your thread.

 

I know partisanship is nothing new. My frustration stems more from what I hear outside of BGP, especially from our politicians. I'm not asking anyone to change their spots; I have a heck of a time myself with wanting to slam someone I strongly disagree with instead of seeing where they may be right. We're at that point that we can't expect Congress to do anything really productive. Every move seems to be political in nature. Whether you're a conservative or liberal or somewhere in-between, we need to demand more from our lawmakers.

The problem I see is both party's are controlled by the radicals and neither one of them have enough "middle of the road" politicians anymore.

[the mathemagician]

Since your post in the other thread was in response to one of mine, I am assuming that you are lumping me in with the so-called "Kool-Aid drinkers." If so, you are way off base.

 

Nobody has been more critical of John McCain than me (although Run To State is a close second) and I have also condemned Bush for failing to use his veto pen to control spending when Republicans had control of Congress.

 

There comes a point in every campaign, however, when you either decide to cast a protest vote, stay at home on election day, or decide which candidate will do the least damage if elected. With the current slate of candidates, the kind of gridlock that will probably characterize a McCain administration is looking pretty good compared to the alternatives.

 

I would prefer somebody who would toe a traditional conservative line but that is just not going to happen in 2008.

 

As for saying, "Boy, my side really screwed up!" - I do not recall any conservative posters defending the out of control spending that has happened on Bush's watch. Nor do I recall anybody defending Nixon or Ford in the misery index thread.

 

As for screw-ups, I have been extremely disappointed in the lack of strong conservative leadership in this country. With Newt Gingrich doing global warming commercials with Nancy Pelosi, John McCain running as the Republican candidate, Ronald Reagan gone to a place of no return, strong Republican leaders seem to be a thing of the past.

 

If you are expecting conservatives to find much with which they agree coming from the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, or Barack Obama, I guess I just don't get your point. If I agreed with the liberal philosophy, then I would have no reason to be a conservative.

 

 

So if you are a Republican then there are just some stances you don't take, especially if you have to side with the likes of Pelosi? I personally would like to see politicians have the courage to take positions based on what they know is right rather than just repeating the partisan talking points. Gingrich has done it on global warming and McCain has done it on a number of issues as well. I defy you find anyone that knows politics and history anymore than Gingrich. Cerainly not you or I. On what few occassions I hear politicians take stances that are in opposition to many in their party, I tend to give more credence to what they are saying.

[Run To State]

So if you are a Republican then there are just some stances you don't take, especially if you have to side with the likes of Pelosi? I personally would like to see politicians have the courage to take positions based on what they know is right rather than just repeating the partisan talking points. Gingrich has done it on global warming and McCain has done it on a number of issues as well. I defy you find anyone that knows politics and history anymore than Gingrich. Cerainly not you or I. On what few occassions I hear politicians take stances that are in opposition to many in their party, I tend to give more credence to what they are saying.

Its politicians like Pelosi that polarize the two parties so much.

[leatherneck]

I don't recall Aces or RTS ever being very critical of John McCain. I recall them being extremely critical of Obama though and Hillary as well.

 

RTS is right: you weren't reading the threads really closely if you don't recall those two being very critical of McCain. I've had some pretty strong back and forths with him and Aces on here in re McCain during the R primary. They were very critical of McCain on immigration, gun control, supporting the tax cuts and other issues. I can't speak for them, but if I had to say, they will be voting for McCain begrudingly and only because the other two options at this point are more liberal than McCain. Heck for what its worth, I agree with them that McCain is not a strict conservative, for which I am glad. As RTS also pointed out we need more "middle of the road" politicians and I believe that McCain is one of them. An interesting article in yesterday's WSJ talked about how something like 72% of the people polled felt the Republicans had America headed in the wrong direction, yet McCain was in a statistical dead heat with Obama and Clinton (the "McCain will just bring a third Bush term" ads being ran by the Dems is not working). I think such poll results clearly show that America wants a middle of the road politician and they believe that McCain is such a politician; otherwise he would be as unpopular as the Republican party is with America.

 

Dad, if I may, what specifically in the other thread has caused you to become so frustrated?

[halfback20]

Then you haven't been paying attention.

 

For starters I've called him a RINO for a loooong time. I've said he isn't exactly a friend of gun owners, IMO. I think he's weak on illegal immigration.

Problem is, the other two are worse.

 

Or maybe it's hard to see those posts through the millions that are used to criticize Barack Obama.:lol:

 

Actually, I've stopped participating in the P&R forum as much as I used to because it is an endless war of words that usually gets no where.

[HHSDad]

Dad, if I may, what specifically in the other thread has caused you to become so frustrated?

I think on BGP, its those that like I said always argue for one party and against another. Some of us seem awfully closed-minded. I'm probably more frustrated with the Repbulican members, since that's how I usually vote. I understand that the Democrat members may just be "challenged" and have a reason for their stance.

 

I think the problem is that we sometimes argue our side (left or right) so hard that we fail to bring up our own reservations. As an attorney LN, you know that its a bad idea to reveal weaknesses in your argument. I guess that's what we do. Better to win your argument than compromise.