The use of one's body

[ladiesbballcoach]

I'm on your side of the abortion issue.

 

I attempted to give my best shot at the questions asked. Beyond that, I can't say why people feel the way they do and I certainly can't defend them if we are going to split hairs.

 

These two issues are totally different wars. I don't think you can really compare the two in great detail because, as I said to start with, they are apples and oranges IMO.

 

I am not really comparing the two more than the mindset of society in viewing the two. THat is my comparison.

 

It seems this society is fine with telling men they cannot use steroids.

It seems this society has a real problem with telling females that can't have an abortion.

 

Have you not heard the argument that it is not our place to tell a female how to use their body?

 

And yet, we outlaw drugs, which is them using their body.

We outlaw prostitution, which is them using their body.

And we are outrage that athletes might use HGH and steroids in athletics and it strikes at the integrity of the game.

 

Approximately 3,500 babies were aborted today and the outrage will not be mentioned on the news.

But guarantee that the outrage over steroids in baseball will be.

[Watusi]

And yet, we outlaw drugs, which is them using their body.

We outlaw prostitution, which is them using their body.

And we are outrage that athletes might use HGH and steroids in athletics and it strikes at the integrity of the game.

 

Yet, none of those laws are about the issue of what they are doing to their body, it is about the residual affects of the act and how it is a detriment to others, not the act itself or how it affects the person doing it.

 

And the steroid thing, as has been said, is only in the narrow window of how it is cheating in the game and not about the personal freedom of it. Nobody is telling men they can't use steroids. They are saying you can't use them and then be paid millions to cheat at the game of baseball. Big difference.

[Watusi]

I am not really comparing the two more than the mindset of society in viewing the two. THat is my comparison.

 

If that is your central point, I think most of us would agree. OUr priorities in this country are grossly out of whack and we are going downhill as a result of it. The issues that really mean something take a back seat to celebrity hogwash, current pop icons, sports, material wealth, drugs, etc. etc.

 

I certainly ain't going to attempt to explain that one.

[JCHS_EAGLE_4_LIFE]

LBBC, What about the situation I presented???

 

What should be the course for a woman in that situation????

[ladiesbballcoach]

I am Pro Choice.. I think a woman should have the right to choose. If you want my reason why I'll tell you.. My Aunt Conceived in 1992. She was a Christian who didn't believe in abortion. The doctors told her she was going to have problems during delivery but she wanted to have the baby. Well She Passed away during child birth but the baby lived. He was born with brain damage and Cerebral Palsy ( sorry for the spelling) he died on Thanksgiving day 1997 at age 4. He never had a life all he could do was lay there he had a feeding tube and constant medical attention..

 

So in my Aunts mind she made the right choice, but what if some woman wanted to save her life by having the abortion shouldn't she be allowed???

 

If it's Illegal then should she be sent to jail....

 

I am not for a woman going out with 10 Guys in 1 night. Getting Pregnant, Doesn't care about the baby having an abortion, if she does it just to kill the baby to keep on living her lifestyle she needed tied up and beat with a whip...

 

That is why I'm pro choice..... You cannot Outlaw a woman trying to save her life.

 

Sorry JCHS, missed this the first time and sorry to hear about your aunt.

 

I believe the doctor is the one that should go to jail.

 

The situation you presented is a hard one but one that is a rare one. Someone posted the stats in another abortion thread that the situation you mention and rape combined occur in somewhere around 7-9% of the cases. So, 91-93% of the abortions are done for convenience and not for the situation you described.

 

Yeah, he did have a life. What you are arguing is that in your opinion, his quality of life wasn't up to par. I am not sure that we should get into deciding what is quality and what is not.

 

On whether to allow the abortion or not, that is a decision I would struggle with. I could see the emotional argument of allowing it for the safety of the mother. But a child's life is a child's life.

[JCHS_EAGLE_4_LIFE]

Sorry JCHS, missed this the first time and sorry to hear about your aunt.

 

I believe the doctor is the one that should go to jail.

 

The situation you presented is a hard one but one that is a rare one. Someone posted the stats in another abortion thread that the situation you mention and rape combined occur in somewhere around 7-9% of the cases. So, 91-93% of the abortions are done for convenience and not for the situation you described.

 

Yeah, he did have a life. What you are arguing is that in your opinion, his quality of life wasn't up to par. I am not sure that we should get into deciding what is quality and what is not.

 

On whether to allow the abortion or not, that is a decision I would struggle with. I could see the emotional argument of allowing it for the safety of the mother. But a child's life is a child's life.

 

She was also strong in her religion, She said god would take care of her and her baby...

 

Your right it was just my Opinion, but if you would have saw him you would come to the same Conclusion. To lay in a bed, never walk, talk, or be able to do anything on his own.. He suffered through Suizures his entire life, Actually a Grandma Suizure is what finally he succummed to...

 

IMO he is better off where he is now... And as bad as it is to say, he would have been better off to have never been born... All that baby did was suffer.

 

I would have no problem with someone in this situation or someone being raped/sexally molested/Incest or the such.

 

I agree with you on the Women doing it for convience... It is wrong and should NOT be allowed...

 

Congress doesn't need to go as far as a total ban, but have a limited Pro- Choice Plan for Such Things as I mentioned Before.

 

I really don't know/ Haven't decided yet when a life actually starts. I have trouble with this sometimes and hopefully one day I will actually come to some conclusion in my mind.

 

Ok, a child has their rights I understand to some point, but doesn't the parents make the choices for there children until they reach legal age. If a child did/does have rights what are they limited too??? Can they choice to Drink,Smoke, and do other things without there parents. There has to be some kind of line there And I don't know where it is???

 

:argue:

[SportsGuy41017]

What about this double standard. If you cause the death of an unborn child such as in a car accident or kill or harm the mother and it leads to the unborns death, you are charged with its death, but if the unborn child is unwanted by the parents it's ok to kill it?

 

On a side note, even though I am a democrat sometimes I do watch Glen Beck on CNN. Two days ago he was talking about the 16 year old Spears and the fact that she is pregnant. Now with him being a conservative I was puzzled by what he said. He said, or anyone else who is pregnant and does not want to keep the child, that she should have the baby not because it would be killing an unborn child, but because people should take responsibility for their actions? I understand people taking responsibility for their actions, but I would say that not killing an unborn child would be the reason to go ahead and have the baby?

 

I think that the only reason one should be able to have an abortion if by having the child it would but the mothers life in danger.

[True blue (and gold)]

What about this double standard. If you cause the death of an unborn child such as in a car accident or kill or harm the mother and it leads to the unborns death, you are charged with its death, but if the unborn child is unwanted by the parents it's ok to kill it?

 

On a side note, even though I am a democrat sometimes I do watch Glen Beck on CNN. Two days ago he was talking about the 16 year old Spears and the fact that she is pregnant. Now with him being a conservative I was puzzled by what he said. He said, or anyone else who is pregnant and does not want to keep the child, that she should have the baby not because it would be killing an unborn child, but because people should take responsibility for their actions? I understand people taking responsibility for their actions, but I would say that not killing an unborn child would be the reason to go ahead and have the baby?

 

I think that the only reason one should be able to have an abortion if by having the child it would but the mothers life in danger.

 

This brings up a point....

 

Do people, such as Beck (I assume?), that villify Jamie Lynn Spears for being pregnant at 16 and unwed, contribute to the pressure put on some girls to have an abortion? Meaning we do not want women to have abortion, but we will look down at our noses at them for getting pregnant?

[ladiesbballcoach]

This brings up a point....

 

Do people, such as Beck (I assume?), that villify Jamie Lynn Spears for being pregnant at 16 and unwed, contribute to the pressure put on some girls to have an abortion? Meaning we do not want women to have abortion, but we will look down at our noses at them for getting pregnant?

 

Not looking down their noses for getting pregnant. Rather their act of having unprotected sex out of marriage.

 

If you are going to commit an adult act of having unprotected sex outside of marriage, than commit an adult act of raising the child. Don't compound the problem by killing the baby.

 

If you cannot financially support the child or don't want the child, than don't have unprotected sex outside of marriage.

[True blue (and gold)]

Not looking down their noses for getting pregnant. Rather their act of having unprotected sex out of marriage.

 

If you are going to commit an adult act of having unprotected sex outside of marriage, than commit an adult act of raising the child. Don't compound the problem by killing the baby.

 

If you cannot financially support the child or don't want the child, than don't have unprotected sex outside of marriage.

 

That all sounds good, but many times we are talking about people that may be sexually mature, but are far from actual maturity...be they teenagers or those in their early 20s.

[True blue (and gold)]

Not looking down their noses for getting pregnant. Rather their act of having unprotected sex out of marriage.

If you are going to commit an adult act of having unprotected sex outside of marriage, than commit an adult act of raising the child. Don't compound the problem by killing the baby.

 

If you cannot financially support the child or don't want the child, than don't have unprotected sex outside of marriage.

 

That is splitting hairs...but at least we agree that it judgemental.

[ladiesbballcoach]

That is splitting hairs...but at least we agree that it judgemental.

 

Do you agree that you can take a position that something is wrong and it not be judgemental.

 

Judgemental to me means you disapprove of something someone is doing and THEN will not help them change or love them.

 

I think I can tell my child, I don't approve of what you are doing and it not affect how I feel about them. I think I could tell you, I don't approve of what you are doing and it not affect how I feel about you. I may be disappointed in both situations but not how I feel.

 

I don't think society sees Christians being able to do that. If we take a position that something is wrong, than we are being judgemental.

[ladiesbballcoach]

That all sounds good, but many times we are talking about people that may be sexually mature, but are far from actual maturity...be they teenagers or those in their early 20s.

 

So, because of their age, they get a free reign to do whatever they want?

[True blue (and gold)]

So, because of their age, they get a free reign to do whatever they want?

 

No...we are talking about why some people might make the decision to have an abortion. Like it or not, all of this "Jamie Spears is worthless" stuff isn't going to help young girls make the decision to keep a baby after making a poor choice to have unprotected sex. That is the reality of our actions.

[True blue (and gold)]

Do you agree that you can take a position that something is wrong and it not be judgemental.

 

Judgemental to me means you disapprove of something someone is doing and THEN will not help them change or love them.

 

I think I can tell my child, I don't approve of what you are doing and it not affect how I feel about them. I think I could tell you, I don't approve of what you are doing and it not affect how I feel about you. I may be disappointed in both situations but not how I feel.

 

I don't think society sees Christians being able to do that. If we take a position that something is wrong, than we are being judgemental.

 

You can take a position and not be judgemental. However, that is not what most people do.