Bouncing an idea off the astute BGP P & R crowd

[ladiesbballcoach]

I love to brainstorm ideas and you guys are the best at discussing ideas. Sometimes to nausea

 

We were debating this morning commitment of Christians. The dangers of Sunday morning Christians. They should up they pay their one hour of fire insurance and go about their normal life. How do you get the message across that it is more than that.

 

So all day today, that has been wandering around my mind and this came out. What do you think?

 

Once a year, we have a signup for a ONE-YEAR commitment to a ministry. Any one that you feel led by the Spirit to sign up for. Could be praise, welcoming, outreach, meals, ladies aid, Sunday School or D-Group teacher, serving communion, prayer, community service projects, VBS, UPWARD, etc, etc, etc. It may be in a 4 times a year service projects were we go to peoples homes that cannot afford things and do basic maintenance or maybe even some major projects. Maybe it is a mission trip. Maybe it is supervising teen outreach projects. Maybe it is simply taking an area of our community and picking up trash 3-4 times a year. Maybe it is donating things to the food kitchens.

 

EVERY MEMBER OF THE CONGREGATION is expected to sign up for a ministry team. No exceptions. We are going to be a Great Commission church that reaches out to help and solve the problems in the community or the people of our communities. If you don't want to sign up, I am sure there are some great local churches that would love to have your attendance and your offering on Sunday morning.

 

Christians at our church would be expected to be solvers of problems and not feelers of seats. I don't think Jesus gives a hoot about how many seats are filled on a Sunday morning but more about how those who proclaim they are Christians are showing His Love to the world through themselves.

 

But as far as our church, we are not about just your attendance and your offering on Sunday mornings. We are about growing people in Christ and that is done through service. If you are a MEMBER of our church we expect you to want to grow and work to grow. And we have leaders in each of these positions trained to help you grow.

 

If you are a new person visiting our church and aren't ready to make that commitment yet, here is a class and a person that can help answer any of your questions but you don't have to sign up. If you wish to, great, but you don't have to. We love your Sunday morning attendance and if you are not giving an offering, that is fine, we just want you here to hear a message and let the Spirit grow with you. Please let us answer any questions you have.

 

But if you have given the good confession, been baptized in Christ and call yourself a member of Jesus' church, we expect you to be involved.

 

Tell me what I am missing. Where am I offbase? What tweaks do I need to make before I go forward with this?

[HHSDad]

Christians become involved in ministries because they want to be involved, not because someone takes them on a guilt trip. All you can do is encourage people to help.

EVERY MEMBER OF THE CONGREGATION is expected, no required, to sign up for a ministry team. No exceptions. If you don't want to sign up, I am sure there are some great local churches that would love to have your attendance and your offering on Sunday morning.

To me, this is just plain wrong. The whole attitude of serve or leave sickens me.

[02Ram54]

I don't think it's appropriate for an entire congregation. Maybe a special organization through the church to encourage service?

[ladiesbballcoach]

Christians become involved in ministries because they want to be involved, not because someone takes them on a guilt trip. All you can do is encourage people to help. To me, this is just plain wrong. The whole attitude of serve or leave sickens me.

That is not the attitude I am saying here although those who want to see it negatively, will see it negatively.

 

My view is that we are a church of the Great Commission. We are a church that is here to help solve problems. We are NOT a church to show up Sunday morning pat ourselves on our backs about how good we are and how bad the world is. That mentality sickens me more.

 

We are supposed to be solvers of problems and yet we stay behind our walls and don't do anything. I am looking to raise the expectations of Christians. If you want to join X church, we expect Christians to be involved in reaching out.

 

Let me also say that the level of commitment is much different for a new believer and a "seasoned" believer. I would not expect a person to be baptized one week and then jump right into a huge commitment. They might start with serving communion or greeting or whatever. And those that are more seasoned would be the teachers or the responsibilities that carry more time commitment.

 

And I agree that they should serve where they feel they are called, that is why there would be a huge choice. I am not sure asking someone to help pass the offering basket is such a huge imposition on their time.

 

You don't have to leave, you can sit in the audience if you so choose but as far as being a "member" of the church......I don't know.

 

Many left Jesus ministry from the sermon on the Mount because the teachings he gave them WAS TOO HARD.

 

I think we have a TON of Christians who think it is sufficient for them to put in an hour on Sunday morning and that is their Christian commitment for the week. And I don't think Jesus would never have left those who CALLED THEMSELVES HIS DISCIPLES off that easy.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I don't think it's appropriate for an entire congregation. Maybe a special organization through the church to encourage service?

Did Jesus let his disciples sit back and do nothing? Or did he call them to serve? Did he call them to care for the poor and the widow?

[Birdsfan]

That is not the attitude I am saying here although those who want to see it negatively, will see it negatively.

You did ask for honest observations -- no?

 

Frankly, I feel the same way as the others who commented. I would feel very uncomfortable being part of a church that told me I had to do something for them. I don't see that kind of coercion as what a ministry should be about.

 

Lead by example, make it inviting, and promote all the positive aspects of the roles you want people to fill. If you do it right, you will get the level of participation you seek. If you try to drag people to the plow kicking and screaming...you'll have a lot of empty pews, filled only with little Dana Carvey clones.

[Birdsfan]

Or did he call them to serve?

Did he call, or force?

[ladiesbballcoach]

You did ask for honest observations -- no?

 

Frankly, I feel the same way as the others who commented. I would feel very uncomfortable being part of a church that told me I had to do something for them. I don't see that kind of coercion as what a ministry should be about.

 

Lead by example, make it inviting, and promote all the positive aspects of the roles you want people to fill. If you do it right, you will get the level of participation you seek. If you try to drag people to the plow kicking and screaming...you'll have a lot of empty pews, filled only with little Dana Carvey clones.

Absolutely, I asked and want to hear the discussion and the views. But also, I knew there would be some and not implying HHSDad is one that would immediately take a certain view. I give that comment more weight because it came from HHSDad than I would if it came from others.

 

And again, I think you are missing the point. It is not about doing diddly squat for the church. It is about doing things for Christ.

 

As I added to the original post, it could be volunteering at the food kitchens, it could be doing service projects where we take turketys at Thanksgiving time to the projects, it would be about being part of a church that is reaching out to the community.

 

I fully believe that people feel church is 1 hour on Sunday morning. And that is what church is. I don't see church in Acts being that at all. They sold ALL THEIR POSSESSIONS AND GAVE IT TO THE ACTS CHURCH SO NONE WOULD BE WITHOUT.

 

How would you feel if the church asked you to do that? Which is exactly what was being done in the Acts church. Now I don't know that they made the call to do that but two lost their lives for not giving their best.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Did he call, or force?

He did not force and some walked away.

 

What is the difference between Jesus saying THIS IS THE WAY YOU HAVE TO LIVE and Him allowing some to walk away and a church saying, THIS IS THE

WAY YOU HAVE TO LIVE, (and please look at my examples that I am fully talking about a mindset of putting others first at some points in your life) and if some go to another church, then so be it, as it was with Jesus.

 

We would pray that they would have a change of heart and see that they have to be reaching out to the sick and poor and meek and weak and not taking up a seat on Sunday morning. That just doesn't get it.

[ladiesbballcoach]

If you try to drag people to the plow kicking and screaming...you'll have a lot of empty pews, filled only with little Dana Carvey clones.

Jesus gave a certain expectation and it left plenty empty pews when people chose NOT TO FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE.

 

I get real frustrated when people ask to waterdown the Christian commitment that Jesus asks so that they get to choose what they do and do not do.

 

It petrifies me that I truly believe that there are people who show up and do the Church thing and they think that is what they are supposed to be doing. One hour on Sunday morning and maybe an hour on either Sunday night or Wednesday morning. That is so far away from what Jesus wants us to be doing as the church, IMVHO. And I fear that they believe they are doing right and they might not have a true relationship with Christ.

 

Should the church not expect it's members to truly have the relationship with Christ that he calls us to have? To be reaching out to the poor, the weak, the meek, the etc's.

[BigBlueFreak]

Do you have to attend a church or show up at a physical place and meet with a group of people to be a Christian?

[Birdsfan]

And again, I think you are missing the point. It is not about doing diddly squat for the church. It is about doing things for Christ.

Actually, I think you're missing the point by a wide margin here. Who or what, or for what purpose they are participating in tasks, doesn't change the fact that the approach is wrong. The heavy-handed, guilt-trip approach will never be the best way to go.

 

I don't remember Jesus carrying a sidearm when he called people to do his work.

[Birdsfan]

Jesus gave a certain expectation and it left plenty empty pews when people chose NOT TO FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE.

In this case, his......or yours? Something to think about.

[ladiesbballcoach]

In this case, his......or yours? Something to think about.

Definitely, not mine.

 

I see him ministering to the poor. Can we agree there?

I see him ministering to the lost. Can we agree there?

I see him ministering to the sick. Can we agree there?

I see him ministering to those that are so lost in sin like prostitutes and the stoning lady that he told to go and sin no more. Can we agree there?

I see him ministering to those that society has turned their backs on like the tax collectors. Can we agree there?

 

Those are the EXACT things that I feel the church should be ministering to and expecting it's members to minister to.

 

Let me ask you this way. Do you believe that Jesus is expecting us to minister to those people? And if we are not are we truly showing those people His love? And what will be the consequences of us not showing His love?

[ladiesbballcoach]

And let me add, I appreciate the comments. It gives me things to think about and just because I may be arguing a certain way, don't assume that I am fully sold out that way. I want to hear the points against that way that I may not have thought of, so I need to argue a point to get the counterpoints.

 

As I said originally, brainstorming here rather than giving a fully thoughtout in stone mindset.