Let me ask you this way. Do you believe that Jesus is expecting us to minister to those people? And if we are not are we truly showing those people His love? And what will be the consequences of us not showing His love?

Yes, I believe he does. But I believe he wants it to come from your heart, and your desire to do good for one another, and for him. He doesn't want one of his other children forcing you to do this or that. He (I believe) calls each of us to express our devotion in our own unique way.

 

I think it's wonderful that you provide so many opportunities for your church members to answer his call -- I really do! I just believe that the answer has to come from within each individual and not because they are being pressured by others.

O-kay - First let me say that I give a lot of my time to my church. I am on the Bereavement Comittee, I help set up for mass. I help with bereavement luncheons. I feel sure I am going to become involved with another team anytime now and I do hope to help with the RCIA process this coming August. Now that I've told you what all I do for my church, I will have to admit to you that if I were given that letter, I would probably think about joining another church. It doesn't sound very inviting, and it, IMO, is borderline PRESSURE. I truly don't want this to sound hateful, and I really do understand what you are trying to say, I just feel it needs to be said differently.

Yes, I believe he does. But I believe he wants it to come from your heart, and your desire to do good for one another, and for him. He doesn't want one of his other children forcing you to do this or that. He (I believe) calls each of us to express our devotion in our own unique way.

 

I think it's wonderful that you provide so many opportunities for your church members to answer his call -- I really do! I just believe that the answer has to come from within each individual and not because they are being pressured by others.

Not at all forcing but saying this is what is expected.

 

Let me ask it another way, is it wrong for a parent to expect a child to attend school and study? Would you say that the parent is FORCING the child to go to school and that is wrong?

Let me ask it another way, is it wrong for a parent to expect a child to attend school and study? Would you say that the parent is FORCING the child to go to school and that is wrong?

Do YOU see yourself as your fellow parishoners' parent? :eek:

EVERY MEMBER OF THE CONGREGATION is expected to sign up for a ministry team. No exceptions. We are going to be a Great Commission church that reaches out to help and solve the problems in the community or the people of our communities.

 

What kind of problems are you going to be solving? What kind of help are you talking about? Are you talking about financial help, counseling through a crisis?

O-kay - First let me say that I give a lot of my time to my church. I am on the Bereavement Comittee, I help set up for mass. I help with bereavement luncheons. I feel sure I am going to become involved with another team anytime now and I do hope to help with the RCIA process this coming August. Now that I've told you what all I do for my church, I will have to admit to you that if I were given that letter, I would probably think about joining another church. It doesn't sound very inviting, and it, IMO, is borderline PRESSURE. I truly don't want this to sound hateful, and I really do understand what you are trying to say, I just feel it needs to be said differently.

Wording is something I can see. I amended my original post because it had the word required and realized that was the wrong word to use.

 

I would not put in the letter, you can leave if you don't do this. That was more for the thread than what would actually be said.

 

I would say that the letter or presentation would be around, that this is our expectations of a member at X church. That you serve in a ministry. I would expect the senior minister to have a sermon series laying out the expectations that Jesus had for us in serving those I have mentioned. The SM would put forth the argument that this is what Jesus expects of those who call themselves Christians.

 

At that point that the expectations that Jesus has for us has been laid out, we would give them the litany of projects and ideas that they could be involved in.

 

Some are small commitments like serving communion once a quarter or running the sound board once a quarter. Some would be a larger commitment, like serving in the nursery once a month. Some would be major commitments like hosting a D-Group in their home or coaching an Upward team for a 10 week season.

 

All to run for a 1-year commitment and then it is over and you can choose another ministry.

 

And if they did not sign up, no one would contact them about leaving the church. But the mindset of the church, the way we advertise/promote the church, would be towards that this is the expectations that Jesus had for Christians and the expectations that our church has.

 

Those who do not sign up might be grouped and given to an elder to go through a low-pressure process to help them see what Jesus is expecting of them. That I honestly would not know how to do but something that would be developed. It would be a very low pressure process.

Do YOU see yourself as your fellow parishoners' parent? :eek:

Absolutely not. But as one of the leaders of our local church, I do feel it falls on the leadership to accurately present the expectations of a Christians from Christ. (please see my reply to RebelK on how I could see that being done)

 

What I do see as one of the leaders of our local church is a pressure that those who attend our church are getting an accurate and full view of what it means to be a Christian. Same thing that Jesus did with the Sermon on the Mount.

 

In no way I am saying I am making decisions like Jesus did. Any and all would have to be fully doused in prayer and I may see during that prayer that the Holy Spirit is telling me I am crazy and to drop it. I fully concede that point.

 

Since I have agreed to be one of the leaders of our little church, what I don't want is to be giving the wrong message out to people and let them develop the mindset that it is perfectly acceptable to show up for the 60 minutes a week and done.

 

Do you realize that Scripture indicates that on Judgement Day that not only will the leaders of the church have to answer for their life, it indicates that they will be called in front of God and have to answer for what the church that they lead did for God's kingdom? That is some HEAVY responsibility.

What kind of problems are you going to be solving? What kind of help are you talking about? Are you talking about financial help, counseling through a crisis?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Any and all help that we could possibly provide. From providing groceries through food banks. To clothes through clothes closets. To basic maintenance at people's homes. You could have a clean out the gutter day in early November. People sign up for this one commitment and you go to the homes of senior citizens, disabled persons, etc and simply clean their gutters out.

 

I would love to see more churches sponsor the AAU teams that travel around and play. My children's teams that go to leagues are called Colossians 3:23. That is what their t-shirts and uniforms have said in the past.

 

How about a summer reading program. Get 10-20 volunteers to give up an hour over the summer on a Tuesday night. Send out a letter to parents of low readers in the local schools and have them come in and have those individuals TRAINED and help those students improve their reading over the summer.

 

See a problem and solve the problem.

 

That simple. Build a mindset in your congregation that Christians are servers.

 

I go back to a mindset I hear in the P & P alot. You got to have high expectations if you expect to have high results.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Any and all help that we could possibly provide. From providing groceries through food banks. To clothes through clothes closets. To basic maintenance at people's homes. You could have a clean out the gutter day in early November. People sign up for this one commitment and you go to the homes of senior citizens, disabled persons, etc and simply clean their gutters out.

 

That simple. Build a mindset in your congregation that Christians are servers.

 

I go back to a mindset I hear in the P & P alot. You got to have high expectations if you expect to have high results.

 

 

I'm going to give you an example of a crisis and I'm just curious how you all would handle this.

 

Say you Ann a 16 year old girl who gets raped, by a drug addic or by a drunk relative and she is too embarrased to come forward except for someone that is in your congregation(It does happen). Ann becomes pregnant and the options are to either have the baby or have an abortion. Ann wants the abortion and the person in your congregation views are anti-abortion. What would your congregation decide on a matter such as this? Would your religious beliefs have you advise against the abortion even though in some cases abortion might be the best solution to a problem such as this?

 

I don't know your true views on this but I'm just curious as to what help you might offer knowing what she wants is a very big negative in the eyes of alot of christians and churchs, it may be yours and it may not. I'm in no way degrading anyones views. My view on this is the abortion might be the best answer.

I amended my original post because it had the word required and realized that was the wrong word to use.

 

I would not put in the letter, you can leave if you don't do this. That was more for the thread than what would actually be said.

 

I would say that the letter or presentation would be around, that this is our expectations of a member at X church. That you serve in a ministry. I would expect the senior minister to have a sermon series laying out the expectations that Jesus had for us in serving those I have mentioned. The SM would put forth the argument that this is what Jesus expects of those who call themselves Christians.

 

At that point that the expectations that Jesus has for us has been laid out, we would give them the litany of projects and ideas that they could be involved in...And if they did not sign up, no one would contact them about leaving the church.

I think this is getting more toward the way you would want to go. Talking about "expectations" and showing the way through sermons, and by example.

 

Those who do not sign up might be grouped and given to an elder to go through a low-pressure process to help them see what Jesus is expecting of them.

But this little part strays back toward the more intrusive approach. Sounds too much like "re-education camp."

I think this is getting more toward the way you would want to go. Talking about "expectations" and showing the way through sermons, and by example.

 

But this little part strays back toward the more intrusive approach.

As I said, I am fully not sure how you handle those. But as a leader in the church, I don't think you can sit back and do nothing. First, you would douse those people in prayer with them not knowing that you are dousing them in prayer.

 

From that, I am not certain how you would handle them but know that it is not right to sit back and do nothing. The letters that Paul wrote are examples of leaders of the church writing to churches and giving them the expectations that they should be doing. He didn't sit back and say, "Aw they will get it."

I'm going to give you an example of a crisis and I'm just curious how you all would handle this.

 

Say you Ann a 16 year old girl who gets raped, by a drug addic or by a drunk relative and she is too embarrased to come forward except for someone that is in your congregation(It does happen). Ann becomes pregnant and the options are to either have the baby or have an abortion. Ann wants the abortion and the person in your congregation views are anti-abortion. What would your congregation decide on a matter such as this? Would your religious beliefs have you advise against the abortion even though in some cases abortion might be the best solution to a problem such as this?

 

I don't know your true views on this but I'm just curious as to what help you might offer knowing what she wants is a very big negative in the eyes of alot of christians and churchs, it may be yours and it may not. I'm in no way degrading anyones views. My view on this is the abortion might be the best answer.

 

We are a small rural church so we don't have all the resources that an urban church would have in counseling and the like, so we would have to be creative.

 

I think a church or in my case a cooperative of the churches in the particular county should provide a counseling service.

 

To give the information about the medical procedure, Scriptures and their stance on the issue, things for the young lady to consider before making that decision.

 

If she decides adoption, provide her with the Christian resources and programs that will help her through that including after the fact counseling.

 

If she decides abortion, treat it as you would any other sin. And that does not mean you turn your back on those who are cheating on their spouse and show up at church. Or who are stealing and show up at church. Or are liars (one of the things that the Lord says he hates and detests). Show them what they have to do for forgiveness of that sin just like any other sin. And provide her counseling for the emotional distress she will go through.

 

I will tell you also, I vote based on one issue. Pro-life stance. I am strongly against it and think it should be outlawed. But I would welcome that person with loving arms and pray for them to ask Jesus for forgiveness of that sin in their life. The same as I ask him each and every day for the stupid sins I still do in my life.

We are a small rural church so we don't have all the resources that an urban church would have in counseling and the like, so we would have to be creative.

 

I think a church or in my case a cooperative of the churches in the particular county should provide a counseling service.

 

To give the information about the medical procedure, Scriptures and their stance on the issue, things for the young lady to consider before making that decision.

 

If she decides adoption, provide her with the Christian resources and programs that will help her through that including after the fact counseling.

 

If she decides abortion, treat it as you would any other sin. And that does not mean you turn your back on those who are cheating on their spouse and show up at church. Or who are stealing and show up at church. Or are liars (one of the things that the Lord says he hates and detests). Show them what they have to do for forgiveness of that sin just like any other sin. And provide her counseling for the emotional distress she will go through.

I will tell you also, I vote based on one issue. Pro-life stance. I am strongly against it and think it should be outlawed. But I would welcome that person with loving arms and pray for them to ask Jesus for forgiveness of that sin in their life. The same as I ask him each and every day for the stupid sins I still do in my life.

 

 

So based on your view you would tell a 16 year old girl she's going to sin if she has an abortion, even if the case may be she was rapped by a relative know the chance of physical and mental problems the child would most likely have. I understand your forgiveness but is jeopardizing the babies inability to function or the problems the young girl might face really a rational choice due to religious beliefs. Again I'm not judging you or anyone, just asking a question.

 

I'm also not telling you your right or wrong, I'm not to be the judge of that for the record. I have my views and everyone has thiers.

So based on your view you would tell a 16 year old girl she's going to sin if she has an abortion, even if the case may be she was rapped by a relative know the chance of physical and mental problems the child would most likely have. I understand your forgiveness but is jeopardizing the babies inability to function or the problems the young girl might face really a rational choice due to religious beliefs. Again I'm not judging you or anyone, just asking a question.

 

I'm also not telling you your right or wrong, I'm not to be the judge of that for the record. I have my views and everyone has thiers.

Jesus pulled a child over and said it is better to be thrown in the sea with a millstone tied around your neck than to harm the hair of a child.

 

Not my view but Jesus'.

 

I understand your point but realize this is not my Scriptures.

 

While it is a sin, there is a way around that sin. Just like if I lie tomorrow and that is a sin. Or if I cheat or steal or dishonor my parents or lust in my heart over a picture of Halle Berry.

 

I sinned but Jesus and the church still loves me. She sinned and Jesus and myself and the church still loves her.

 

Saying someone sinned is not a judgement or a lack of love for that person. And it is not a judgement because we are told that EVERYONE SINS. My senior minister sins and the guy or gal that will show up Sunday at church for the first time sins. We all do it.

Jesus pulled a child over and said it is better to be thrown in the sea with a millstone tied around your neck than to harm the hair of a child.

 

Not my view but Jesus'.

 

I understand your point but realize this is not my Scriptures.

 

While it is a sin, there is a way around that sin. Just like if I lie tomorrow and that is a sin. Or if I cheat or steal or dishonor my parents or lust in my heart over a picture of Halle Berry.

 

I sinned but Jesus and the church still loves me. She sinned and Jesus and myself and the church still loves her.

 

Saying someone sinned is not a judgement or a lack of love for that person. And it is not a judgement because we are told that EVERYONE SINS. My senior minister sins and the guy or gal that will show up Sunday at church for the first time sins. We all do it.

 

The science on this is where mine and your view will differ but that's another topic.