Anymore, I find all the naysaying and negativity almost humorous. People refuse to break their hypothesis of beliefs no matter how many facts come at them. 

Some facts. Vaccines prevent deaths. That is really all that matters. How many cases there are doesn't matter if deaths and serious ICU level illness don't result. More than 90% of the hospitalized are unvaccinated. High price to pay in the pursuit of herd immunity. About 8.5 billion people worldwide have been vaccinated on some level yet people refuse the vaccine because of __________________ ? This is a worldwide event so throw all your US based conspiracies out the window. If you want to believe in a conspiracy, make sure it passes the worldwide test.

One thing seems apparent - based on the number of religious exceptions, COVID has caused more people to "get religion" than perhaps any other event in history.

This is all rather simple to me. I said this months ago. Everyone is getting COVID antibodies one way or another. Forget the masks and let it roll. Protection is there for those who want it. The vaccines prevent deaths and that is the biggest concern for all of us. Individuals are free to decide how they want to experience COVID - vaccinated or unvaccinated.

24 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

This is all rather simple to me. I said this months ago. Everyone is getting COVID antibodies one way or another. Forget the masks and let it roll. Protection is there for those who want it. The vaccines prevent deaths and that is the biggest concern for all of us. Individuals are free to decide how they want to experience COVID - vaccinated or unvaccinated.

This and I will add forget all mandates/restrictions/whatever and let everyone get on with life. 

FDA has been dragging feet on Pfizer pill that is 90% effective preventing death. I think it will get emergency approval in a couple weeks. Need this ASAP!

7 minutes ago, Tigerpride94 said:

FDA has been dragging feet on Pfizer pill that is 90% effective preventing death. I think it will get emergency approval in a couple weeks. Need this ASAP!

Yeah, what a joke on the feet dragging.

58 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Anymore, I find all the naysaying and negativity almost humorous. People refuse to break their hypothesis of beliefs no matter how many facts come at them. 

Some facts. Vaccines prevent deaths. That is really all that matters. How many cases there are doesn't matter if deaths and serious ICU level illness don't result. More than 90% of the hospitalized are unvaccinated. High price to pay in the pursuit of herd immunity. About 8.5 billion people worldwide have been vaccinated on some level yet people refuse the vaccine because of __________________ ? This is a worldwide event so throw all your US based conspiracies out the window. If you want to believe in a conspiracy, make sure it passes the worldwide test.

One thing seems apparent - based on the number of religious exceptions, COVID has caused more people to "get religion" than perhaps any other event in history.

This is all rather simple to me. I said this months ago. Everyone is getting COVID antibodies one way or another. Forget the masks and let it roll. Protection is there for those who want it. The vaccines prevent deaths and that is the biggest concern for all of us. Individuals are free to decide how they want to experience COVID - vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Except people haven’t been free to choose if they are being coerced into vaccinations.  I’m a vaccinated guy coming off of Covid 2 weeks ago.  I’d like to believe the vaccine helped me.

1 hour ago, theguru said:

This and I will add forget all mandates/restrictions/whatever and let everyone get on with life. 

I think mandates are anti productive at this point outside of your own employees. Let all entities do their own "mandates" as they see fit. For example, Kroger has now stated they will not pay sick pay to any unvaccinated employee who misses time due to COVID. They also are adding a $50/month charge to health insurance of the unvaccinated. They are offering $100 bonuses for getting vaccinated.

1 hour ago, John Anthony said:

Except people haven’t been free to choose if they are being coerced into vaccinations.  I’m a vaccinated guy coming off of Covid 2 weeks ago.  I’d like to believe the vaccine helped me.

Agree. See above concerning mandates. If a business of any sort wants to require vaccinations, they should have the freedom to require it as they see fit for their business and employees.

More importantly, glad to hear you to handled COVID well and you are almost certainly right that the vaccine helped.  

25 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I think mandates are anti productive at this point outside of your own employees. Let all entities do their own "mandates" as they see fit. For example, Kroger has now stated they will not pay sick pay to any unvaccinated employee who misses time due to COVID. They also are adding a $50/month charge to health insurance of the unvaccinated. They are offering $100 bonuses for getting vaccinated.

I am not a big fan of Kroger doing it and I doubt they would be doing it without a lot of external pressure.

11 minutes ago, theguru said:

I am not a big fan of Kroger doing it and I doubt they would be doing it without a lot of external pressure.

 Perhaps. But Kroger has been on the aggressive side of employee safety all along, including mask requirements for employees.

 I know of other large companies that have been just as aggressive long before any before any mandates were promoted.

40 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 Perhaps. But Kroger has been on the aggressive side of employee safety all along, including mask requirements for employees.

 I know of other large companies that have been just as aggressive long before any before any mandates were promoted.

At this pace it won't be long before employers say "you are overweight" and science and insurance says blah blah blah bad about being overweight and we are going to charge you more for your insurance and not give you paid sick time.  

41 minutes ago, theguru said:

At this pace it won't be long before employers say "you are overweight" and science and insurance says blah blah blah bad about being overweight and we are going to charge you more for your insurance and not give you paid sick time.  

I'm good with that. You pay for the risk you choose. Smokers pay more don't they? Free choice. You choose to live a certain way that creates risk, you should pay more for that risk. Unvaccinated people have a much higher risk of hospitalization and death. If they choose to be unvaccinated, they should pay to cover the added risk of that choice.

23 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I'm good with that. You pay for the risk you choose. Smokers pay more don't they? Free choice. You choose to live a certain way that creates risk, you should pay more for that risk. Unvaccinated people have a much higher risk of hospitalization and death. If they choose to be unvaccinated, they should pay to cover the added risk of that choice.

Slippery slope.  Since we now know medical information is no longer private everyone will eventually get an individual rate.  

3 hours ago, theguru said:

Slippery slope.  Since we now know medical information is no longer private everyone will eventually get an individual rate.  

For sure.  Do you smoke, drink, take drugs or eat fatty foods?  How much do you weigh?  Do you exercise?  How many partners have you had?  If you dissect everyone’s life choices, few of us would pass muster.

That being said, I wonder how many are refusing the vaccine because it is mandated in so many places.  Some people take a stand because they don’t want to be forced to do anything.

4 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I'm good with that. You pay for the risk you choose. Smokers pay more don't they? Free choice. You choose to live a certain way that creates risk, you should pay more for that risk. Unvaccinated people have a much higher risk of hospitalization and death. If they choose to be unvaccinated, they should pay to cover the added risk of that choice.

Part of me agrees, but part of me acknowledges that we don't know the long-term ramifications (if they exist) of the vaccine/boosters.

5 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I'm good with that. You pay for the risk you choose. Smokers pay more don't they? Free choice. You choose to live a certain way that creates risk, you should pay more for that risk. Unvaccinated people have a much higher risk of hospitalization and death. If they choose to be unvaccinated, they should pay to cover the added risk of that choice.

Not everyone who is overweight is so as a result of lifestyle choices.  Some medical conditions, such as hypothyroidism for example can lead to obesity.