Pete Rose not reinstated

[lawildcat]

To me the right thing is to put him in the HOF and keep him out of baseball.

 

I think that's all he's really looking for. Total jerk move by the HOF to change their terms for entry after Pete got banned from MLB. If I didn't know any better, I'd say there was a conspiracy involved.

[rjs4470]

In 1985 at age 44 in 501 PA Pete hit .264 with a .395 OBP. In 2015 only Harper, Cabreara, Votto, Goldschmidt, Trout, and McCurcheon were higher than .395.

In 1985 he was 8th in all of MLB in OBP. Your "hanging around" argument doesn't hold up.

 

Obviously, much of that OBP came from walks. His OPS which is a better reflection. Of effectiveness as a hitter was only .713, about .300 behind league leader George Brett. And using 2015 would have ranked 107th, tied with perennial all star Billy Butler, and just ahead of Brandon Moss. Rose had a grand total of 16 extra base hits, slugged .319 scored only 60 runs and knocked in 46 that year. Those numbers would get a first baseman in 2015 run out of baseball. The only reason Pete Rose got as many at bats in 1985 was because Pete Rose was the manager. Statistically, Pete's last really good all around year was 1979.

 

I'm not debating his Hall Of Fame credentials. He belongs. He helped my Phillies win their first World Series, and I love him for that. But he is not as "great" as everyone likes to think he was.

[OlDog75]

Pete is his own worst enemy, always has been. And if he hadn't screwed his New York bookies we wouldn't be talking about this today. When I heard Dowd say the words, "integrity of baseball" in an ESPN interview, I wanted to just PUKE. I used to believe in it but that integrity horse apple was stepped on in the teens and 20s and ever since. Professional sports is sooooo interlaced with gambling you'd be a fool to think otherwise. MLB is the epitome of hypocrisy, especially when they looked the other way during the "saviors of baseball home run race" by Maguire and Sosa. They knew damn good and well those two were juiced.

[ggclfan]

The one thing that really came across to me is how much John Dowd despises Pete.

 

I just figured an investigator would be neutral and just let the results speak for themselves. But it's clear he takes it personally. Not sure if Pete banged his wife or what.

 

I think Dowd hates Rose because he had all the goods on Rose from the beginning and has watched him lie about and ridicule the work Dowd did from day one...and Dowd has been right about everything from day one. I think Dowd is an old school straight shooter who thinks Rose is the scum of the earth for things that have come out and probably for things that still have not come out. I agree with you that Dowd does take it personally when it comes to Rose but if you are him and you have had to listen to him lie about your report (when you know it is true) for years and years...I cannot blame him.

[PurplePride92]

I didn't realize that he didn't first admit to gambling as a manager until 2004. I was thinking it was much sooner than that.

 

I still think he should be in the HOF though.

[futurecoach]

Obviously, much of that OBP came from walks. His OPS which is a better reflection. Of effectiveness as a hitter was only .713, about .300 behind league leader George Brett. And using 2015 would have ranked 107th, tied with perennial all star Billy Butler, and just ahead of Brandon Moss. Rose had a grand total of 16 extra base hits, slugged .319 scored only 60 runs and knocked in 46 that year. Those numbers would get a first baseman in 2015 run out of baseball. The only reason Pete Rose got as many at bats in 1985 was because Pete Rose was the manager. Statistically, Pete's last really good all around year was 1979.

 

I'm not debating his Hall Of Fame credentials. He belongs. He helped my Phillies win their first World Series, and I love him for that. But he is not as "great" as everyone likes to think he was.

 

Everyone is definitely entitled to their own opinion. However if you don't think he is as great as people think. I would really like to know what players you do consider great? It would be very easy to find many players who are even in the hall of fame and find "reasons" for why they actually weren't "great" and try to use numbers to show otherwise.

[rjs4470]

Everyone is definitely entitled to their own opinion. However if you don't think he is as great as people think. I would really like to know what players you do consider great? It would be very easy to find many players who are even in the hall of fame and find "reasons" for why they actually weren't "great" and try to use numbers to show otherwise.

 

Never said he wasn't great. He is the all time hit leader. And he had some really great years. But if you really examine his career, what did he do well aside from hit singles?? Average glove, average arm, zero power, not great speed, didn't drive in runs. I think there are quite a few guys that more more impactful and "greater". Mays, Aaron, Schmidt, mantle, Williams and I could probably name 50 more. Heck I don't know that he was ever the best player on his own team. I'd take Morgan and Bench any day over Pete.

[futurecoach]

Never said he wasn't great. He is the all time hit leader. And he had some really great years. But if you really examine his career, what did he do well aside from hit singles?? Average glove, average arm, zero power, not great speed, didn't drive in runs. I think there are quite a few guys that more more impactful and "greater". Mays, Aaron, Schmidt, mantle, Williams and I could probably name 50 more. Heck I don't know that he was ever the best player on his own team. I'd take Morgan and Bench any day over Pete.

 

All the guy did was hit singles and get on base, is almost as silly as when the Eagles traded Chris Carter and said all he does is catch touchdowns. Pete Rose was a great baseball player and one of best baseball players to play the game. I don't think anyone has ever talked about him being the best ever. So no sure exactly what your point of this is?

[littleluck55]

Never said he wasn't great. He is the all time hit leader. And he had some really great years. But if you really examine his career, what did he do well aside from hit singles?? Average glove, average arm, zero power, not great speed, didn't drive in runs. I think there are quite a few guys that more more impactful and "greater". Mays, Aaron, Schmidt, mantle, Williams and I could probably name 50 more. Heck I don't know that he was ever the best player on his own team. I'd take Morgan and Bench any day over Pete.

 

Pete isn't just a legend locally, he is a legend nationally. He was named to baseball's all century team. He was an all star 17 times. He won the rookie of the year, gold glove twice, batting title three times, and MVP once. He was a career .303 hitter. I believe you said 79 was the last year his stats were any good. That is 16 years after he made his major league debut so I would think skills would decline. Did he play a little long, I'm sure he did. Just like many of the greats that can't hang it up.