Per McKee, Scott County is the Dallas Cowboys of Kentucky

[Hellbird]

Why would we be comparing this hypothetical team to Scott County? You claimed that this team would threaten for a title every year, and Scoot County has only done that once (2013). I've been comparing the team to Trinity, St. X, and Male. You do forget, though, that in addition to winning a weak region SC went on to beat Male that year, where Cooper lost to the first strong team they encountered in 2014.

 

The best 'in the area' doesn't exactly impress me until the 'area' in question is competitive. Except for Highlands and small schools (NCC/Beechwood) it is not.

 

If your opinion is such an obvious truth that 'I must not know much about HS football' then why can't you back it up? None of your evidence has been anything close to convincing.

You are the one who said to hypothetically come up with a team to show you who Boone would have. I did that and now you are saying that doesn't count? lol

 

I did back it up, I gave you a team just in the last 5 years that would compete if not win a title. I also showed you how weak SC's run to state was when comparing they only had to beat the 93rd ranked team in the state and 30th ranked team to get to the regional title game that year while you said Cooper was weak because they only had to get to the semis because of a weak regional yet their weak regional teams they had to beat last year were ranked 14th in the state (Franklin Co.) so if you are trying to compare the "tough road" SC had in 2013 to Cooper's weak regional last year, well that doesn't hold much water. You said Cooper lost to the first good team they faced last year in the playoffs....I'd think 14th ranked team in the state isn't too shabby to beat, needless to say the team they finally did lose to won the state title.

 

You are comparing NKY schools that have a history in the state but missing the point of this debate...you say you can't count on a NKY 6A team as credible because they have no history yet you are ignoring the fact we are talking about the difference between Scott County having only 1 public high school and if Boone county only had 1 public high school...there is no Boone county team to compare because that 1 school doesn't exist. don't you get that? You are saying you can't give them serious consideration because they have never done anything in the past...WELL DUH!!! It's because that 1 school doesn't and has never existed!!!!! We are talking about if they did only have 1 school and what that team would look like.

 

I understand you are a SC fan and that is great, defend them to the end, I would. At the same time though you can't dismiss what we are talking about and come to a conclusion that NKY could never field a competitive team if they combined all their public schools because the idividual schools themselves have never done anything.....don't you understand that is the entire point of this and that is it's because the 4 schools in Boone alone have spread the talent so wide instead of having it consolidated. That is the entire point we made earlier that you ignore.

[psychicscubadiver]

You are the one who said to hypothetically come up with a team to show you who Boone would have. I did that and now you are saying that doesn't count? lol

 

I did back it up, I gave you a team just in the last 5 years that would compete if not win a title. I also showed you how weak SC's run to state was when comparing they only had to beat the 93rd ranked team in the state and 30th ranked team to get to the regional title game that year while you said Cooper was weak because they only had to get to the semis because of a weak regional yet their weak regional teams they had to beat last year were ranked 14th in the state (Franklin Co.) so if you are trying to compare the "tough road" SC had in 2013 to Cooper's weak regional last year, well that doesn't hold much water. You said Cooper lost to the first good team they faced last year in the playoffs....I'd think 14th ranked team in the state isn't too shabby to beat, needless to say the team they finally did lose to won the state title.

 

You are comparing NKY schools that have a history in the state but missing the point of this debate...you say you can't count on a NKY 6A team as credible because they have no history yet you are ignoring the fact we are talking about the difference between Scott County having only 1 public high school and if Boone county only had 1 public high school...there is no Boone county team to compare because that 1 school doesn't exist. don't you get that? You are saying you can't give them serious consideration because they have never done anything in the past...WELL DUH!!! It's because that 1 school doesn't and has never existed!!!!! We are talking about if they did only have 1 school and what that team would be like.

 

When did I say that team didn't count? All I said was that it didn't impress. I can't see the hypothetical you created as being an actual threat for a state team, which as you are fond of saying, is the point. How did you back it up? What year would this team have played and who would be on it? If you are talking about the team for this year then, like I said, I can't see it threatening for a title.

 

Franklin County was not 14th in the state, they were 14th in their class and 64th in the state. That's quite a difference, and no, I don't find it impressive that Cooper beat the 64th in the state. Yes, Scott County had a region that was just as weak, but who cares? After winning the weak region they beat a strong opponent where Cooper lost to theirs.

 

This theoretical team would be the sum of its parts. If the parts are not impressive why should the whole be? You are not giving any credible reasons for why this ream would be good. Because Scott County is good? We've just pointed out Scott County only had one good year and certainly doesn't threaten for a title every year. Because Boone County has the talent? What talent? I asked you to provide that, and Trinity alone had twice D1 commits in the same time period. Because high enrollment equals automatic win? I showed that dedicated schools with good coaches/systems can beat schools with double or more their enrollment.

 

You claim to have backed it up, but how? Outline your points coherently and keep in mind what I've already shown to be false.

[Hellbird]

you are right, that was my mistake about the ranking of Franklin co. then again SC still only had the 93rd and 30th ranked team to get by in 2013 which tells me they had a weak regional also as you say Cooper had last year.

 

as far as showing you the team again, I already did. Nothing more for me to have to back up. Connor Hemple, Travis Elliot, Davante Bradley etc. all on the same team and that isn't even talking about the players from Boone and Conner to be added also for that one year. Sorry but if you think if all of Boone county schools being combined into 1 school wouldn't be a formidable team then there is nothing that will ever sway you.

 

This entire thing is based on what SC's coach said and the fact that SC has no compeition in the county because they are the only public school. I said Boone county or even Kenton county would be just as strong and competitive if they only had 1 school also instead of spreading all the athletes across all the public schools in each county. Boone as an example has 4 6A schools in the county all within around a 10 mile radius. If they could merge all 4 schools into 1 they would have a very competitive team and in my opinon would be a power in the state in football period.

 

You seem to think simply because not one school in boone is consistently competing for state title year in and year out that combining the schools would have the same results. That is a silly way to think about it. The reason not 1 school has competed year in and year out for a state title in 6A is BECAUSE they have 4 schools in the county that divides up all the talent instead of having all the talent consolidated on one team. Even someone who doesn't follow high school football can easily see the truth in that.

 

You want an even easier comparison? How about just combining 2 schools in kenton county. How about combining Cov Cath and Beechwood just for Football. Do you think Cov Cath would then have a better team to compete against Highlands? I do. It's because you are combining the best of both teams into 1 team. Same in Boone County, you would combining the best from 4 teams into 1 team. It's really not difficult to comprehend the idea that 1 team with 200 players to choose from should be more competitive than 1 team with 50 players to choose from.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Hellbird

[psychicscubadiver]

you are right, that was my mistake about the ranking of Franklin co. then again SC still only had the 93rd and 30th ranked team to get by in 2013 which tells me they had a weak regional also as you say Cooper had last year.

 

as far as showing you the team again, I already did. Nothing more for me to have to back up. Connor Hemple, Travis Elliot, Davante Bradley etc. all on the same team and that isn't even talking about the players from Boone and Conner to be added also for that one year. Sorry but if you think if all of Boone county schools being combined into 1 school wouldn't be a formidable team then there is nothing that will ever sway you.

 

Yes, but Cooper lost immediately after that weak region where as Scott County continued winning.

 

What year(s) would all of them play together? When could they have threatened? And why not talk about the players of Boone and Conner; is it because they had no one worth listing to add?

 

Facts and evidence would sway me, but as you seemingly can't produce any of those, I suppose you are right.

[Hellbird]

Yes, but Cooper lost immediately after that weak region where as Scott County continued winning.

 

What year(s) would all of them play together? When could they have threatened? And why not talk about the players of Boone and Conner; is it because they had no one worth listing to add?

 

Facts and evidence would sway me, but as you seemingly can't produce any of those, I suppose you are right.

I already gave you the year 2010

I will give you another year 2011 and 2012 for a third year.

 

As far as DI recruits, of course Trinity will have more and it has as much to do with the name than anything else. They are nationally known so they get more attention than any school in Boone. That doesn't mean Boone schools don't have players worthy of DI scholarships. Dvante Bradley was the best RB in the area, even better than Travis Elliot but he played for Cooper and it was only their 2nd year of football and had freshman filling out the roster and playing on the line so he had no protection around him yet still had 300 yd plus games. So it does make a difference where you go. I garuntee you if Bradley played for Trinity he would not only had several DI offers but also would have been in the running for player of the year. So where you play does make a difference as far as being recognized. So I don't put much weight into anything when you say Trinity had 8 DI players...put those players on Boone schools and see how many would have had offers. Hopefully all would have but it is a tougher road to haul to be noticed. Anyway back to the topic....I gave you 3 years and I won't garuntee they would have won state those 3 years but they would have had a great shot at it.

 

Dvonte Bradley just that year avg'd close to 180 rushing yards a game with over a 7 yard per carry avg for Cooper. You probably never heard of him but that is the kind of talent that was spread among 4 teams in the county.(He also finished 3rd in the entire state that year in rushing and better than any RB in Louisville including Trintiy's) They also were only in their 2nd year in existence and were playing in the largest class in the state back then also. so they weren't cupcakes they played.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Hellbird

[psychicscubadiver]

I already gave you the year 2010

I will give you another year 2011 and 2012 for a third year.

 

As far as DI recruits, of course Trinity will have more and it has as much to do with the name than anything else. They are nationally known so they get more attention than any school in Boone. That doesn't mean Boone schools don't have players worthy of DI scholarships. Dvante Bradley was the best RB in the area, even better than Travis Elliot but he played for Cooper and it was only their 2nd year of football and had freshman filling out the roster and playing on the line so he had no protection around him yet still had 300 yd plus games. So it does make a difference where you go. I garuntee you if Bradley played for Trinity he would not only had several DI offers but also would have been in the running for player of the year. So where you play does make a difference as far as being recognized. So I don't put much weight into anything when you say Trinity had 8 DI players...put those players on Boone schools and see how many would have had offers. Hopefully all would have but it is a tougher road to haul to be noticed. Anyway back to the topic....I gave you 3 years and I won't garuntee they would have won state those 3 years but they would have had a great shot at it.

 

Dvonte Bradley just that year avg'd close to 180 rushing yards a game with over a 7 yard per carry avg for Cooper. You probably never heard of him but that is the kind of talent that was spread among 4 teams in the county. They also were only in their 2nd year in existence and were playing in the largest class in the state back then also. so they weren't cupcakes they played.

 

So, all of them were sophomores in 2010 yet you think they would have been competitive? Even if they had been seniors every year (and lost no one) I have a hard time believing they could threaten. True, Male was down all three of those years but Trinity was 16th (2010), 2nd (2011), and 11th (2012) in the nation. St. X was also considered 219th, 209th, and 41st in the nation. I have a hard time believing the team you have hypothesized could have threatened either of them.

 

In regards to D1 offers depending on where you go... yes, surely that explains why out of the 2015 class we have recruits like: Mason Wolfe (Henderson County 5-6 1st round loss), Aldwin Jackson/Mikal Ballard (Seneca 5-6, 1st round loss), Shaun Whittinghill (Moore 3-7 no playoffs), Nick Coffey (Russel County 1-10 1st round loss), Devon Wharton (Christian County 4-8, 2nd round loss), Chad Cessna (Hopkinsville 4-8, 2nd round loss), and Tyler Jefferson (Doss 5-7, 2nd loss).

 

Given that the toughest teams Cooper played that year (2010) were Ryle and SK his stats do not impress me. Given the lack of D1 offers, professional recruiting scouts seem to have agreed with that opinion. You may have been personally very impressed by him, but that does not translate to comparative skill.

 

Even without considering the D1 differences you have not said anything about the coaches. Trinity has a top notch staff that leads them to victory even when the opponent has more talent. The whole reason St. X is considered to be down this year is because of trouble in the coaching staff despite their talent and tradition. Who would have lead them? What coach in NKY is up to the task?

 

To be honest, I think you're just coming into this with the homer opinion 'my area's team could win if...' yet you can't prove or provide evidence that they could actually threaten for the title any year much less multiple ones.

[75center]

If my math is right a single school in Boone Co would have about 2900 boys. Still would need the right coach and program support but that would be a formidable population to draw 120 football players from. Of course that doesn't take into account those who would go elsewhere but nice to think about.

[Hellbird]

So, all of them were sophomores in 2010 yet you think they would have been competitive? Even if they had been seniors every year (and lost no one) I have a hard time believing they could threaten. True, Male was down all three of those years but Trinity was 16th (2010), 2nd (2011), and 11th (2012) in the nation. St. X was also considered 219th, 209th, and 41st in the nation. I have a hard time believing the team you have hypothesized could have threatened either of them.

 

In regards to D1 offers depending on where you go... yes, surely that explains why out of the 2015 class we have recruits like: Mason Wolfe (Henderson County 5-6 1st round loss), Aldwin Jackson/Mikal Ballard (Seneca 5-6, 1st round loss), Shaun Whittinghill (Moore 3-7 no playoffs), Nick Coffey (Russel County 1-10 1st round loss), Devon Wharton (Christian County 4-8, 2nd round loss), Chad Cessna (Hopkinsville 4-8, 2nd round loss), and Tyler Jefferson (Doss 5-7, 2nd loss).

 

Given that the toughest teams Cooper played that year (2010) were Ryle and SK his stats do not impress me. Given the lack of D1 offers, professional recruiting scouts seem to have agreed with that opinion. You may have been personally very impressed by him, but that does not translate to comparative skill.

 

Even without considering the D1 differences you have not said anything about the coaches. Trinity has a top notch staff that leads them to victory even when the opponent has more talent. The whole reason St. X is considered to be down this year is because of trouble in the coaching staff despite their talent and tradition. Who would have lead them? What coach in NKY is up to the task?

 

To be honest, I think you're just coming into this with the homer opinion 'my area's team could win if...' yet you can't prove or provide evidence that they could actually threaten for the title any year much less multiple ones.

They weren't all sophomores. Hempel and Bradley were both seniors and Elliot was a Jr. None were sophomores

 

I again have stated facts that you choose to ignore. Not only do you ignore the facts but you make up thigs such as "They were all sophomores" when the fact is they were both seniors and a JR, but don't let facts get in your way. You also didn't do your homework when looking up Cooper's schedule seeing how the first game of the year was Johnson central who went 9-3 that year.

You don't seem to be impressed with someone who rushed for almost 2000 yards and was #3 in the state behind a makeshift offensive line made up of freshman and sophomores etc. then I can't think of anytime you would ever be impressed. So with that said, I'm done debating this with you because again and again you continue to ignore facts and ignore what I've posted as you continue to ask the same questions that have been answered a dozen times already., Good luck to your team.

[Hellbird]

If my math is right a single school in Boone Co would have about 2900 boys. Still would need the right coach and program support but that would be a formidable population to draw 120 football players from. Of course that doesn't take into account those who would go elsewhere but nice to think about.

Which has been my point from the start yet some people don't understand that.

 

Btw, I'd take Borchers as the coach everyday and twice on Sundays out of the 4 schools.

[psychicscubadiver]

They weren't all sophomores. Hempel and Bradley were both seniors and Elliot was a Jr. None were sophomores

 

I again have stated facts that you choose to ignore. Not only do you ignore the facts but you make up thigs such as "They were all sophomores" when the fact is they were both seniors and a JR, but don't let facts get in your way. You also didn't do your homework when looking up Cooper's schedule seeing how the first game of the year was Johnson central who went 9-3 that year.

You don't seem to be impressed with someone who rushed for almost 2000 yards and was #3 in the state behind a makeshift offensive line made up of freshman and sophomores etc. then I can't think of anytime you would ever be impressed. So with that said, I'm done debating this with you because again and again you continue to ignore facts and ignore what I've posted as you continue to ask the same questions that have been answered a dozen times already., Good luck to your team.

 

Sorry, at work, couldn't post. Anyway, I never stated they were sophomores, I asked that because I was confused by your post when you listed the team as competing in 2010-2012. That's why I asked for a single year. If they were seniors and one junior then what would have made the 2011 and 2012 teams competitive?

 

Johnson Central was ranked lower than Ryle and SK that year. How did I not do my homework? I listed Cooper's top two games. I suppose I could have listed all three, but seeing as how they lost to all three, that seemed a bit pointless. No I'm not impressed with someone who got 2000 yards against that schedule. Was he good for his area? Sure. Was he good enough to actually help threaten for a state title? I continue to doubt that. Get 2000 yards against significant competition and then I would be impressed.

 

How did I ignore anything? You have brought up is the number of D1 commits Boone County had and I showed Trinity had more. You brought up that Cooper made it to the finals in 2012 and the semis in 2014. I agreed that the 2012 performance was good, but dismissed the 2014 performance for clearly explained reasons (weak region). You brought up stats of a single player and claimed he should have been a D1, and I disagreed after looking over their schedule.

 

Disagreeing or disproving is not ignoring.

 

And among the 'dozens' of question you 'answered', you never answered this. How would the hypothetical team beat a Trinity team ranked in the top 25 nationally?

 

2900 enrollment doesn't impress me for the exact reasons I outlined about why enrollment does not decide victory.

[Hellbird]

Sorry, at work, couldn't post. Anyway, I never stated they were sophomores, I asked that because I was confused by your post when you listed the team as competing in 2010-2012. That's why I asked for a single year. If they were seniors and one junior then what would have made the 2011 and 2012 teams competitive?

 

Johnson Central was ranked lower than Ryle and SK that year. How did I not do my homework? I listed Cooper's top two games. I suppose I could have listed all three, but seeing as how they lost to all three, that seemed a bit pointless. No I'm not impressed with someone who got 2000 yards against that schedule. Was he good for his area? Sure. Was he good enough to actually help threaten for a state title? I continue to doubt that. Get 2000 yards against significant competition and then I would be impressed.

 

How did I ignore anything? You have brought up is the number of D1 commits Boone County had and I showed Trinity had more. You brought up that Cooper made it to the finals in 2012 and the semis in 2014. I agreed that the 2012 performance was good, but dismissed the 2014 performance for clearly explained reasons (weak region). You brought up stats of a single player and claimed he should have been a D1, and I disagreed after looking over their schedule.

 

Disagreeing or disproving is not ignoring.

 

And among the 'dozens' of question you 'answered', you never answered this. How would the hypothetical team beat a Trinity team ranked in the top 25 nationally?

 

2900 enrollment doesn't impress me for the exact reasons I outlined about why enrollment does not decide victory.

2000 yards for a guy in a team that only won a couple games is the point! He had no line and no supporting cast. Cooper was a brand new school, don't you get that? When Cooper opened, any jr or senior that was to transfer to Cooper was allowed to stay at their current school to graduate which meant cooper had freshman etc playing Varsity to fill out the roster and freshman starting! That makes it more impressive than anyone from any other school in the state. You just don't get it. You are soley going on Cooper's record that year and ignoring the fact they were a brand new school and yet with no line etc they had a RB that finished 3rd in the entire state in rushing. Now think what he could have done if he played for your Trinity etc.

 

I guess this entire thing is over your head. We will leave it at that.

 

you so say enrollment doesn't matter in 6A? How many male students attend the powerhouses in Louisville? I have a feeling they are the most in the state.

[psychicscubadiver]

2000 yards for a guy in a team that only won a couple games is the point! He had no line and no supporting cast. Cooper was a brand new school, don't you get that? That makes it more impressive than anyone from any other school in the state. You just don't get it. You are soley going on Cooper's record that year and ignoring the fact they were a brand new school and yet with no line etc they had a RB that finished 3rd in the entire state in rushing. Now think what he could have done if he played for your Trinity etc.

 

I guess this entire thing is over your head. We will leave it at that.

 

I tell you what. Let's say he was in fact D1 material. What does that change?

 

I've made salient points that you continue not to address. How would this hypothetical team compete with nationally ranked Trinity? How can you say they would threaten until they could do that?

 

If we simply mark this as a difference of opinions and leave it be, then fine. However, twice now you have tried to imply I simply don't understand things, which is very insulting considering I have never done the same to you.

[Hellbird]

I tell you what. Let's say he was in fact D1 material. What does that change?

 

I've made salient points that you continue not to address. How would this hypothetical team compete with nationally ranked Trinity? How can you say they would threaten until they could do that?

 

If we simply mark this as a difference of opinions and leave it be, then fine. However, twice now you have tried to imply I simply don't understand things, which is very insulting considering I have never done the same to you.

You keep saying enrollment size does t matter yet in 6A it matters a ton. It just so happens Trinity I believe has the largest male enrollment in the entire state. You don't think that makes a difference? Many of the big schools in Louisville have the most male enrollment etc yet you don't think that makes a difference?

 

That is just one of many points.

 

didnt mean to insult you if you were so I apologize. I was trying to point out the fact that a RB who finishes 3rd in the state on a brand new team made up of freshman starters etc is a lot more impressive than anything any other player does in an established team such as Trinity.

 

You ou seemed to be stuck in their record and schedule and not the fact that they also played the top class in the state schedule. That is why I questioned what you were thinking.

[Hellbird]

I will end it this way. Boone county and Kenton county could merge every public school into one and they could never come

close to competing with Trinity.....EVER lol.

 

That should take care of it.

[psychicscubadiver]

You keep saying enrollment size does t matter yet in 6A it matters a ton. It just so happens Trinity I believe has the largest male enrollment in the entire state. You don't think that makes a difference? Many of the big schools in Louisville have the most male enrollment etc yet you don't think that makes a difference?

 

That is just one of many points.

 

And I will refer to one of my opening comments which listed smaller schools that beat larger ones. Including how Bowling Green has beaten St. X (the team that actually has the largest enrollment in state) for four years running with half the enrollment.

 

Then continue on with Paul Dunbar and other high enrollment schools that are not competitive. Also mentioned in an earlier comment.

 

Finish with the fact that Male and Manual have some of the lowest enrollment in the Class (22nd and 24th respectively) below both Ryle and Sk and yet they are somehow competitive with St.X and Trinity. In fact Male is ranked number one in the preseason list.

 

All that said, of course enrollment size matters; otherwise we wouldn't have Classes. However, it is not the deciding factor or indeed even the most important factor in making a winning team. Until you can refute the examples I have just established then that remains true.

 

One 'point' down. How many more?