Do You Believe in a Literal Hell ?

[Science Friction]

I don't believe that faith and political ideology are synonymous and you do your share of bashing in the political threads as well.

 

I guess you then are the arbiter who determines how religious faith stacks up to political ideology . I know some people who don't give a damn about religion but politics hits home for them. Others are just the opposite. I say we both tone down our rhetoric from now on. I won't bash Peter, Paul, & Hannity if you won't bash Barney , Billary, or old lady Ginsberg.

[All Tell]

So now you're equating politicians to saints?

 

You can bash Hannity, Limbaugh, Palin any of the others all you want, I'll do the same regarding the MSNBC crew and our apologist in chief.

 

One thing I won't do and as far as I can remember I've never done is bash anyone for what they do or don't believe about their own faith. Apples to kumquats.

[Science Friction]

So now you're equating politicians to saints?

 

You can bash Hannity, Limbaugh, Palin any of the others all you want, I'll do the same regarding the MSNBC crew and our apologist in chief.

 

 

 

 

One thing I won't do and as far as I can remember I've never done is bash anyone for what they do or don't believe about their own faith. Apples to kumquats.

 

 

Politicians are skanky but real. Peter, Paul & Mary- probably imaginary, unlike the sixties folk group.

 

I guess I view it as me just expressing my very outspoken views on the subject. When I say that I believe Graham is sincere and actually believes the nonsense and dangers he has preached over the years, I am simply stating what I believe. Some take it that I am bashing them when I say Graham speaks nonsense. I just don't see it that way.

[capt278]

Insecure Christians like the one a few posts above this one tend to regard every statement as ridicule. Most , I feel, lack considerable confidence in their supernatural beliefs to begin with. You just hate when we(agnostics/atheists) confront you with what you know deep down is true-God didn't create us... we created him!

 

I don't think the poster is insecure. The post was fairly accurate.

 

Many, by what you posted you could be included, atheists/agnostics, seem to be very quick to ridicule Christians. I don't ridicule your, IMHO, ridiculous stance that the is no God.

 

It seems that those that scream for tolerance the most are the most intolerant of others.

[Science Friction]

I don't think the poster is insecure. The post was fairly accurate.

 

Many, by what you posted you could be included, atheists/agnostics, seem to be very quick to ridicule Christians. I don't ridicule your, IMHO, ridiculous stance that the is no God.

 

It seems that those that scream for tolerance the most are the most intolerant of others.

 

That's where we seem to be on different pages...er, planets. I do believe in tolerance. I believe you have every right to believe in foolishness just as I do. I'm a liberal, for goodness sakes. I tolerate everyone and everything. Homosexuality... to each his own. Abortion... it's your decision lady. Handle snakes...not my cup of tea but if it makes you happy, by all means, milk that sucker. I'm for everyone doing whatever the hell they want to do in their lives if it makes them happy or makes them rest easier at night. I also believe everyone has the right to express their views on a subject, even when their views are unpopular. I have more of a problem with those who wuss out and never express a strong opinion on controversial topics. I have been reading on this site for well over a decade and some of the old timers I couldn't you one way or another what their views are on social issues, religion, origin of life, etc... All Tell and I have divergent views on most everything but by damn he hates liberals and isn't afraid to say it. There are others who are the same way. There are even a few left-leaning BGP'ers who speak up pretty strongly. I love folks who courageously voice strong, even controversial views., even when I think what they advocate for is crappola. I like them even more when they don't misconstrue my attack on man's religion as a personal attack on their characters.

Have a blessed evening. Gotta fix a little supper.

[capt278]

That's where we seem to be on different pages...er, planets. I do believe in tolerance. I believe you have every right to believe in foolishness just as I do. I'm a liberal, for goodness sakes. I tolerate everyone and everything. Homosexuality... to each his own. Abortion... it's your decision lady. Handle snakes...not my cup of tea but if it makes you happy, by all means, milk that sucker. I'm for everyone doing whatever the hell they want to do in their lives if it makes them happy or makes them rest easier at night. I also believe everyone has the right to express their views on a subject, even when their views are unpopular. I have more of a problem with those who wuss out and never express a strong opinion on controversial topics. I have been reading on this site for well over a decade and some of the old timers I couldn't you one way or another what their views are on social issues, religion, origin of life, etc... All Tell and I have divergent views on most everything but by damn he hates liberals and isn't afraid to say it. There are others who are the same way. There are even a few left-leaning BGP'ers who speak up pretty strongly. I love folks who courageously voice strong, even controversial views., even when I think what they advocate for is crappola. I like them even more when they don't misconstrue my attack on man's religion as a personal attack on their characters.

Have a blessed evening. Gotta fix a little supper.

 

Saying you are tolerant and being tolerant are two different things. Being liberal doesn't make you tolerant. Many of the most intolerant of others views I know call themselves liberal.

 

Being tolerant means not referring to ones belief in God as foolish or believing in fairies and pixie dust. I disagree with your stance as a non-believer but I'm not going to call you idiotic or foolish.

[B-Ball-fan]

I have my own personal sense of spirituality that is mostly based on hope more than anything else.

 

I feel that I've had brushes with unexplainable experiences that make me lean on this spirituality & hope without anything completely concrete helping me know anything with any complete certainty.

 

With that lack of complete certainly there's not a whole lot that I can offer to anyone else as being the ultimate believable truth, but the common denominator to my own experiences and personal sense of spirituality seems to boil down to eternal love.

 

If more "insight" is to come along during my lifetime I will remain open to it, but in general it has to come from my own experiences and not from others puppeting to me that which they have been indoctrinated to believe, and while I can't say anything with any complete certainty, others can be certain that I have nothing that I will be forcing on them as the concrete truth.

 

While many like to tag a label on themselves as Christian, Agnostic, and so on, and although I've dabbled heavily in both, I really can't. I can't live by a label that satisfies where I'm at, and though I have hope, I have no real concrete belief. Belief takes faith, and I'm more inclined to require fact. Even with a certain amount of hope, I tend to be more a realist in need of proof, and accept my limitations where proof is not available.

 

With being raised Catholic I often wonder if my spiritual hope is simply me holding on to a vestige of my upbringing where it's powerful early development had a huge effect on me, and still perhaps might to a certain degree. I still must question deeply some of my unexplainable experiences for they very much have impacted where I presently am spiritually. I've dissected so much from so many angles, and have so very often separated myself from traditional beliefs to view things from outside of the box, so to speak.

 

I'm all for everyone being able to believe in anything they might, but have always found it peculiar how so many believe so concretely in things that, although they feel down deep that they are certain of, have obtained mostly from being indoctrinated from organized religious sources, while they seem to fail to see that throughout this world so many are susceptible to the powerful teachings of the various religions that they are brought up with through ethnic and family traditions, as well as geographical location.

 

Whether or not they're following real truth, for the most part humanity has evolved into a monotheistic belief system, from a once polytheistic belief system, but still the most prominent religions throughout the world still have their grave differences as well as some similarities, while followers faithfully follow each of these respective religions as if they are following the "Real Truth", or "The True Religion".

 

Perhaps there are those of the 7 billion people on planet earth that really really do somehow know the ultimate truth, but of the billions of people that have ever lived, and the billions that presently do, although many have strong beliefs, none can prove anything, yet many will still jump to defend these unprovable beliefs and take it as a terrible insult if anyone were to question them. That would scream as being more of a product of mass religious brainwashing than it would of anything else when looking at it behaviorally.

 

Even those who display extreme intelligence and logic in so many various areas and topics can be found taking offense to their religious beliefs being questioned. That's a great example of the brainwashing being terribly strong when even those type intelligent logical folks can't even see where such a question of a God can't really be anything else but open for questioning if they're being completely honest with themselves.

 

At the end of the day I find it hard to believe that anyone truly knows anything for certain, but at the same time you'll find very few that will admit this, or the world coming to a unified agreement on that anytime soon. Religious beliefs worldwide have proven to be far too strong to ever allow a realistic honest admittance to not knowing anything for sure. The built in guilt factor of religion won't allow for it for so many.

 

That's not a shot at anyone and their beliefs for everyone is entitled to believe what they want, but more so just an observation of the behavioral peculiarities that are ever so apparent as a result of the powerful effect of religion on humanity.

 

For some, Hell just might be defined as suffering through one of my long dragged out posts.

[B-Ball-fan]

Science and math predicts alien civilizations have evolved just as we did. Science does not predict a divine creator. The divine creator God was invented by man.

 

I recently viewed a fascinating episode of NOVA entitled "Alien Planets Revealed" where scientist through the help of the Kepler Space Telescope have explored the possibility of life existing on alien planets orbiting distant stars. With so many planets now known to exist, and basing what we know about how life does exist on Planet Earth, scientists are searching for, with the logical educated assumption that with so many planets out there, that there must be some that reside within "The Goldielocks Zone" where they are in just the right position near its sun, just as Planet Earth is, to be able to develop and sustain life.

 

One thing that stuck out with me in this documentary was their statement that although it might be possible that there is "Intelligent Life" elsewhere just as there is here, looking at all the life on Planet Earth, the presence of our "Intelligent Life" is more of an exception to the rule as with so much life all over this planet, humanity is the only form of life here that has evolved into being "Intelligent".

 

Humanity is truly a rarity here while there are so many other forms of life all around us that cannot be categorized as "Intelligent Life" in that sense of the word. With that, although there might be numerous planets out there with life, it might just be a leap of astronomical proportions to find one that has the presence of "Intelligent Life" when looking at Planet Earth as an example.

 

Super interesting episode of NOVA:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDcsfTsuXw0

[All Tell]

That's where we seem to be on different pages...er, planets. I do believe in tolerance. I believe you have every right to believe in foolishness just as I do. I'm a liberal, for goodness sakes. I tolerate everyone and everything. Homosexuality... to each his own. Abortion... it's your decision lady. Handle snakes...not my cup of tea but if it makes you happy, by all means, milk that sucker. I'm for everyone doing whatever the hell they want to do in their lives if it makes them happy or makes them rest easier at night. I also believe everyone has the right to express their views on a subject, even when their views are unpopular. I have more of a problem with those who wuss out and never express a strong opinion on controversial topics. I have been reading on this site for well over a decade and some of the old timers I couldn't you one way or another what their views are on social issues, religion, origin of life, etc... All Tell and I have divergent views on most everything but by damn he hates liberals and isn't afraid to say it. There are others who are the same way. There are even a few left-leaning BGP'ers who speak up pretty strongly. I love folks who courageously voice strong, even controversial views., even when I think what they advocate for is crappola. I like them even more when they don't misconstrue my attack on man's religion as a personal attack on their characters.

Have a blessed evening. Gotta fix a little supper.

 

Before you express my views for me know this, one of my best friends is very liberal. He knows my politics, I know his, we don't talk to each other about it. I don't hate liberals, I hate what I think liberals and the liberal agenda is doing to this country but that's a discussion for the politics thread.

 

I don't hate atheists, I hate the smug, condescending, know it all, I'm smarter then you are attitude that many espouse.

[rockmom]

I, too, generally believe that Hell is the absence of God for Eternity. I think that one reason that Hell is portrayed as a place of fire is because we consider fire to be the most hellacious state physically. Equating something like burning for Eternity is certainly a motivation to follow the straight and narrow path.

 

But I also have wondered many times in my life whether "Hell" isn't here on Earth, in our daily lives. If you go through things that are soul-crushing, it's hard not to wonder if just making it through life isn't trial enough, that to just make it through will be enough to reap some.sort of "reward" in the afterlife, whatever that may be.

 

Concepts such as Heaven and Hell are beyond our human mental abilities. All we can imagine is limited by our human mind's capacity. We assign earthly applications to the concepts, things like fire for hell and big, white, fluffy clouds for heaven.

[doomer]

Dude, I can PROVE that the area under the curve y = sin x from x=0 to x=pi is 2 . Proving that I know more about the mysteries of the Universe than anyone else would be significantly more challenging and would probably be viewed as a condescending proof as well.

 

Not really...pi is in itself an irrational number thus 2 would necessarily be an approximate and not exact. Much, as some of our faith is not exact, cannot be proven with formulas, but forms our beliefs our actions, our relationships and our expectations. This faith to many of us makes like more meaningful and is truly inspired.

[Science Friction]

I, too, generally believe that Hell is the absence of God for Eternity. I think that one reason that Hell is portrayed as a place of fire is because we consider fire to be the most hellacious state physically. Equating something like burning for Eternity is certainly a motivation to follow the straight and narrow path.

 

But I also have wondered many times in my life whether "Hell" isn't here on Earth, in our daily lives. If you go through things that are soul-crushing, it's hard not to wonder if just making it through life isn't trial enough, that to just make it through will be enough to reap some.sort of "reward" in the afterlife, whatever that may be.

 

Concepts such as Heaven and Hell are beyond our human mental abilities. All we can imagine is limited by our human mind's capacity. We assign earthly applications to the concepts, things like fire for hell and big, white, fluffy clouds for heaven.

 

 

 

My granny always used to say this. I suspect she was right.

[Science Friction]

Not really...pi is in itself an irrational number thus 2 would necessarily be an approximate and not exact. Much, as some of our faith is not exact, cannot be proven with formulas, but forms our beliefs our actions, our relationships and our expectations. This faith to many of us makes like more meaningful and is truly inspired.

 

 

I need to have a long talk with your calculus teacher!

[Getslow]

I need to have a long talk with your calculus teacher!

 

Total divergence from the thread, but those trig functions always bugged me. I did fine on the exams because memorizing a table of trig functions is the easy part.

 

But I never really grasped how cos(pi)=-1.

[doomer]

It doesn't.....it approximates -1. Man takes it on faith that this is close enough :-).