ASU Professor Arrest & Federal Investigation

[JokersWild24]

She didn't wrongfully go to jail. Not even close. And the prosecutor went forward with felony charges right? So apparently they're confident enough to do that...

 

You keep bringing up the Sheriff. Do you not understand that's a completely different agency? He has nothing to do with the ASU PD.

 

And prosecutors drop smaller charges off all the time when there are much bigger charges attached. They still felt confident enough to move forward with felony assault charges and several others.

 

 

 

Since we’re back to trying insults that I don’t know the difference between agencies and that prosecutors “drop ‘smaller’ charges off all the time”, I guess it’s fair if I point out that the damage to the police car actually wasn’t a “smaller” charge than the three misdemeanors. Further, thank you, I'm aware of how the distinction between agencies and think you might have missed the part where the prior DA was also sued in the naming the Sheriff that the 9th Court of Appeals just upheld. The DA brings charges and tries cases from both ASU and Marciopa County—that’s the same DA for both agencies, same jury pool for trials (which you can bet this one will be going to). That’s the DA who was just the target of an FBI investigation regarding his falsely bringing civil and criminal charges, lost his license to practice law, and named in the suit that the judgment was levied against, but hey, those are just minor details that any “cop hater” probably throws around as buzzwords. Whew, now that that’s out of the way and we’ve enchanged greetings, let’s move on.

 

 

Maricopa County now has new DA who will be running for election at some point. He or she is the new DA because the previous one’s transgressions haven't even been settled for a whole calendar month. The last DA and current Sheriff were sued for, among other things, improperly use of their authority and racial discrimination. Now you have a woman going to trial and probably filing a civil suit and I think it’s safe to say that improper use of authority and racial discrimination could come up once or twice. If you can’t see the connection, then there’s no point in discussing this further.

 

 

If the officer in question profiled the woman, which, by looking at the street in question, hearing the 911 call, and having all of the area law enforcement's (the agencies like the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and ASU police who work in conjunction with one another at times) transgressions fresh in the mind of jurors (and voters), her attorneys have a strong case for painting the officer as having profiled her, then there’s a good chance that it doesn't matter what she did. You need to have a lawful basis for the stop if you want to make charges stick (of course there are some exceptions, but I’m going to guess it’d be tough sledding if they wanted to qualify for one of those). Right now, in my humble opinion, they are going to be fighting an uphill battle on that one.

 

 

Again, if the basis of the stop leading to the events that ultimately landed the lady in jail was her race, then yes, she wrongfully went to jail in the eyes of the law and would honestly be disturbed if you would argue that, even if it were known without a doubt that she was stopped primarily because of her race, that she should still be subject to the possible range of penalties (because that would imply that she should have just been compliant with the same laws that weren’t even protecting her in the first place).

 

 

You’ve seen the pictures of the street (those ones you accused me of falsifying with no proof whatsoever that I had, and that, even by your own admission, was baseless), so let’s assume we’re talking about that place. I wonder how many other people were stopped for jaywalking (other than the ones doing it in that video who couldn’t be stopped while he was occupied) or how fast that car that she apparently ran out in front of missed her by as they raced down that stretch of highway, making the officer completely disregard that emergency call to write a jaywalking ticket?

 

Even if he’s right and didn’t profile, you think the officer might now be wishing he didn’t throw the book at her or might have had an inkling that something like this could happen when he did given the past suits that the taxpayers in Maricopa County are already paying for? Do you think if maybe he could go back and do things over, he might not have been so quick to make an arrest, because how dare someone try to get a word in and speak to him in a tone that’s disrespectful?

 

 

I’m sure that to some, even if it were profiling, the stop doesn’t matter because it had to be that crazy, angry black woman who just goes around flipping out, right? Poor officer probably couldn’t keep her safe from herself. Just a level headed guy, out doing his job being all respectful to everyone and someone comes along and does this because he tries to stick someone with a felony because I mean, how dare anyone think of ever being flippant with him considering all the good he’s done, right? Let’s give him a pat on the back for being in the trenches on the mean streets of ASU, writing tickets to jaywalkers, busting frat parties, and generally babysitting kids whose parents shell out $25K a year to go there—that practically sounds like a warzone.

 

 

I’m really, really doubting he was responding to a call, had his lights on, and the professor deliberately tried to get in his way, but maybe I’m giving someone intelligent enough to get their doctorate too much credit and not giving enough to the guy who probably just finished community college, had got his first big job (well, besides him working at the Dispatch Office with his Stepmommy in 2012—true story, I kid you not), and might have overreacted a bit by starting the conversation with “do you know what this is, this is a street to begin an encounter that just kept escalating by being a little overzealous”.

 

But hey, even if he wasn’t profiling, then maybe he was sitting writing jaywalking tickets on a closed road, so at least there's that. I know that might sound counterproductive to some, but that might be a good thing given the track record of law enforcement in Maricopa County getting sued. Crap, I forgot, they’re probably getting sued now too! I guess they really may not be able to stay out of their own way.

 

Sorry, but Maricopa County isn’t bigger than the United States (but don’t tell them that). On second thought, maybe someone should tell them because with the way they’ve been acted, I’m actually not sure if they know that themselves.

 

 

Now, I know you may not give much credence to lawsuits and verdicts considering your statements that more or less brush a few Federal investigations and Justice Department oversight in the area aside or bury your head in the sand as to how deteriorated some of the conditions that reflect the culture of law enforcement in that municipality have become, but others do. Some people can also recognize that things like this, statistically speaking, disproportionately affect certain classes of people. Ignore it if you want, but it’s part of what really ends up getting this officer burned after he might have shown a little too much flex and lost his head a little because he’d felt disrespected instead of maybe just letting it go.

 

 

If I were her, had my doctorate, and was at my place of work but actually was singled out for a violation tons of other people were committing (and the only differentiating factor between me and those who weren’t being stopped was probably my race), then yes, I’d have been mad too. No, I wouldn’t have acted like she did, but yes, I’d have been mad. She has shouldn’t be singled out to be cited for a minor crime that was laxly enforced while being talked down to in the process, especially, of all places, at her place of employment. I can look at the facts as objectively as I possibly can and honestly say that, based on what’s known now, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that race wasn’t a motivator in that stop.

 

I'm guessing you might come back and say, “well, that’s what she gets for talking back to him” or something similar, but I’m doubting you say, “well, despite what she did, maybe he put himself in that whole situation because he might have been profiling, lost his temper a little bit, and maybe that’s what he gets when it could have been handled an easier way, but just ends up trying to overcharge” if that’s how the verdict works out.

 

But hey, regardless of how the verdict comes down, who needs judges and juries to decide all that when we have police who can do the jobs themselves, do a better job of it, and should never be questioned or have any oversight? I know some people that I honestly wouldn't be surprised to hear that from.

 

 

You say that the DA seems confident enough to move forward, but they’ve already started reversing course by dropping some of the charges (I know why the DA would drop charges, but did you ever consider that she might have dropped on of the most serious ones like her damaging the car because she, gasp, he or she felt like the officer might have overcharged?). They’ve already hired an outside agency to conduct an independent investigation. Call it what you want, I personally wouldn’t call it ‘confidence’ though.

 

 

Like another poster said, you shouldn’t argue with an officer because something bad could happen. Usually, it’s you going to jail, but if you are actually right and can prove that you were right and want to pursue the matter hard enough, the “bad” that can also happen is that someone loses their job because they’ve just poured gas on a fire that was just about to go out and the person who got taken to jail ends up getting a blank check with the taxpayer’s name on it. The gas on the fire is a metaphor for racial tensions between citizens and the area law enforcement and the part about the fire "almost going out" is the whole 18 days that the last verdict against the county had to sink in with everyone.

 

 

 

This evening, it’s now being reported that the portion of the statement detailing how the “officer’s car almost hit her” was only released AFTER ASU had made their first statement saying that there were no improprieties (LINK: Arizona professor's jaywalking arrest gets out of hand - CNN.com). Funny how that second review revealed a damaging fact once the heat was turned up. With the story now being picked up by networks like CNN, it’s about to get really hot.

 

 

Also, investigations have revealed that the ASU Officer in question’s Father was a lead investigator at the Tempe Police Department whose duties included murder investigations? Do you think that might be something that could possibly be inferred as a reason why his son, who was the ASU officer involved in most of the action while his partners were standing by, might have gotten a bit of a pass on the investigation’s first go-round?

 

There are times when you’ve accused me of being overly critical of police officers while I’ve just as often implied that maybe you are overly sympathetic to officers before getting the full story, but I can honestly feel bad for the kid’s Dad in all of this because it appears he’s actually a good officer who had a solid career for the community investigating homicides. He’s now probably going to end up seeing his son go through all of this, he'll have to deal with the toll it takes on the family, and he'll have all of the good things that he’d done called into question. I’m also sorry for the guy’s partner who appears in the video and actually appears to handle the situation as best he possibly can, actually gets somewhere by reasoning with the lady, but was likely drug into the whole mess by a partner who likely didn't handle it nearly as well as he would have.

[halfback20]

If you think those were insults, I don't know what to say. Never in my life would I have imagined that someone would take those as "insults" :lol2:

[halfback20]

Your sarcasm and insults towards the police officer really detract from your debate and make your argument look weak IMO. In fact, I stopped reading right around the paragraph where it all occurred.

[halfback20]

You didn't insult me or hurt my feelings bud. I just feel like your argument is so weak there was no need to continue. You have no shred of evidence showing any profiling occurred. You have evidence that a prior DA and sheriff that has no association with ASU PD did...

 

You can fluff your posts up all day...doesn't change the facts.

 

When did I accuse you of blatantly lying...

 

 

I'll wait.

[JokersWild24]

You didn't insult me or hurt my feelings bud. I just feel like your argument is so weak there was no need to continue. You have no shred of evidence showing any profiling occurred. You have evidence that a prior DA and sheriff that has no association with ASU PD did...

 

You can fluff your posts up all day...doesn't change the facts.

 

When did I accuse you of blatantly lying...

 

 

I'll wait.

 

 

Well, I think one of the more obvious times was when you said I should "post pictures of the actual scene". I distinctly remember challenging you on that and you admitting that there was any basis to what'd you'd said at all.

 

I do BGP for fun, so I don't have to come here and fake a picture to feel like I one-upped someone in an argument.

[halfback20]

Well, I think one of the more obvious times was when you said I should "post pictures of the actual scene". I distinctly remember challenging you on that and you admitting that there was any basis to what'd you'd said at all.

 

I do BGP for fun, so I don't have to come here and fake a picture to feel like I one-upped someone in an argument.

 

Btw those pics would help more if they were the exact location where this occurred. Other wise they are useless. They turned onto the road from another street....She was walking in the middle of the road and they almost hit her. Pretty good reason to stop and talk to her imo.

 

Are we seeing the same post? That's what you consider an accusation of blatantly lying or falsifying a picture? Stretch things much?

[JokersWild24]

...

 

 

Btw those pics would help more if they were the exact location where this occurred. Other wise they are useless. They turned onto the road from another street....She was walking in the middle of the road and they almost hit her. Pretty good reason to stop and talk to her imo.

 

 

As for the pictures, I found those on a webpage that had represented them as being the ends of the street in question, and it wasn't blocked off on both ends, but it would appear that it was only open to local businesses. In the news report, I'm seeing two cars (both traveling slowly and in the same direction, going by in the news report and nothing going toward the end that was blocked.

 

 

Btw, I don't have the pictures...because Im not there. It might be the best pics available I don't know.

[JokersWild24]

Arizona State offers support for body-slammed professor, but university denies any shift @insidehighered (Email sent to everyone from the Provost of Arizona State University)

 

 

 

scholarships | ASU President's Club

 

ASU officer involved in professor's arrest linked to second controversial case | azfamily.com Phoenix

 

 

https://cfo.asu.edu/police-chief-message l

 

Nation reacts to ASU professor's arrest

Edited July 2, 2014 by PurplePride92

[halfback20]

...

 

Still not anything close to the accusations of blatant lies.

[JokersWild24]

Still not anything close to the accusations of blatant lies.

 

Can you show me the Arizona law where it's an arrestable offense to not provide an ID for a jaywalking charge? I'm having trouble finding that law. If it's not on the books, you think the guy might have been wrong in saying "show me your ID or I'll arrest you"? If you can show me the law where it says you have to provide ID for jaywalking under Arizona law, then I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

[JokersWild24]

Kid in the articles above had a President's Scholarship to ASU, an internship with the Phoenix Suns, and a 4.0 GPA. He's also pending trial for "assaulting" Officer Ferrin. Seems like Mr. Ferrin really has bad luck and just runs into a lot of really smart jerks who decide to resort to a life of crime around him.

 

You can read the e-mail the Provost sent to the entire university and you can see the "web upgrade" that the ASU Police Department's page underwent from yesterday to today.

 

If you check out all of those and get back to me on that lawfulness of the arrest that got Mr. Ferrin into the whole mess in the first place, then I'll listen to whatever else it is you want to say in defense of him if there's anything else.

 

I just made the point when the whole thing started that I thought he overcharged her with the felony. Of course he should have expected her to come out lawyered up and go for his throat, he charged her with a felony after he stopped her for jaywalking on a partially closed road and escalated the situation. What'd he expect her to do, come to court and say he was right, she was so sorry, and ask to keep working on her next dissertation from prison?

 

I don't feel sorry for the guy at all because I don't want people like Ersula Ore and Jason Heckendorn in prison or unemployable because some kid fresh out of some school that probably isn't nearly as prestigious as ASU (or if it was, he wasn't paying very good attention) who doesn't even know the law he's trying to enforce wants to play policeman and can't even do it right for a full year without raising this much hell. Sorry for not being sorry if that's too much to ask or expect of him.

 

This has been out for three days and there's already this much bumbling. Keeping a college campus safe as Campus PD isn't the most challenging thing in the world. Imagine if this guy did something more akin to actual blue collar police work and less like being a babysitter for college kids and driving through a campus where there isn't very much hard crime going on. If I were an officer, I wouldn't want that guy as my partner. It doesn't mean all cops are bad or whatever, it's just that he doesn't seem to be a very good one.

 

I really do feel bad for the kid's Dad, who seemed to be a really good homicide investigator and now has to see this and I feel bad for the partners that were there with him because I honestly think if you had removed Ferrin, then this probably wouldn't have happened.

Edited July 2, 2014 by JokersWild24

[JokersWild24]

Still not anything close to the accusations of blatant lies.

 

Let's agree to disagree on the whole "it would help if you posted the actual pictures, otherwise these are useless" when I'd posted pictures of the actual scene and said they were such. Reasonable minds can differ on it. Sorry if I took that to mean you were accusing me of blatantly lying about it.

[Jumper_Dad]

Can you show me the Arizona law where it's an arrestable offense to not provide an ID for a jaywalking charge? I'm having trouble finding that law. If it's not on the books, you think the guy might have been wrong in saying "show me your ID or I'll arrest you"? If you can show me the law where it says you have to provide ID for jaywalking under Arizona law, then I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

Not sure about the law in Arizona. It would stand to reason that if someone was going to receive a citation that the officer would have to ascertain their identity to properly cite them. Other wise she could have said her name was Susie Smith and the courts would have had no recourse when she didn't appear in court or pay her fine. If she wasn't going to get a citation then he wouldn't need to see her ID for just walking down the street. Since he was going to cite her he needed to verify who she was.

 

If she gives him her ID, he writes citation and it's all over.

That's just how I see it.

[Jumper_Dad]

Kid in the articles above had a President's Scholarship to ASU, an internship with the Phoenix Suns, and a 4.0 GPA. He's also pending trial for "assaulting" Officer Ferrin. Seems like Mr. Ferrin really has bad luck and just runs into a lot of really smart jerks who decide to resort to a life of crime around him.

You would be amazed how many "Jerks" you can come in contact with on a daily, weekly, monthly and yearly basis. 4.0 doesn't mean someones not a jerk.

[halfback20]

Not sure about the law in Arizona. It would stand to reason that if someone was going to receive a citation that the officer would have to ascertain their identity to properly cite them. Other wise she could have said her name was Susie Smith and the courts would have had no recourse when she didn't appear in court or pay her fine. If she wasn't going to get a citation then he wouldn't need to see her ID for just walking down the street. Since he was going to cite her he needed to verify who she was.

 

If she gives him her ID, he writes citation and it's all over.

That's just how I see it.

 

Actually, if she moves out of the street she doesn't even get stopped. According to the report she refused to comply and refused to give ID after he stopped her.

 

But he escalated the situation...