Rob Bell controversy

[Randy Parker]

There are lots of contradictory scripture and stories that don't jive. Jesus also said that not one generation would pass before he returned. Paul clearly stated that Jesus was coming in his lifetime. Is that not "flawed"?

 

Many different interpretations of what Jesus was saying w/ the fig tree. Paul never clearly stated that Jesus would return in his lifetime. Did he believe that would happen? I'm sure he did. But he never passed it off as fact.

 

The contradictions arise when people select certain portions of Scripture and point to them when the need arises, but then neglect other passages that clearly contradict their personal beliefs.

 

If a person believes that only part of Scripture is inspired, then how do we know which is & which isn't?

[Randy Parker]

I believe in the Virgin Birth.

 

That said, the OT passage in Isaiah that is often referred to does not say a "virgin shall conceive" in the original Hebrew text. It uses the word for maiden. The two concepts are not the same in Hebrew.

 

The term "virgin" came from the Septuigant which was the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures which was the common man's Scriptures by the time of Jesus. (Sorta a Jew's KJV if you will)

 

When Matthew later uses the Isaiah prophecy in his gospel he quotes it as "virgin" from the Septuigant, not the original Hebrew text.

 

Well, there's always Mary's response, "How can this be since I am a virgin?"

 

And again I say that if Mary was not a virgin, then she was not what Scripture claims her to be.

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

I will wait until I have read the book and Bell's thoughts for myself, but like Hatz I don't have to agree with everything he writes in order for it to grow me. Rob Bell asks lots of questions, I like that, because I fully admit that I don't have all the answers either. I am always wary of people who do pretend to have it all figured out, are secure in every aspect of their theology, and give criticism freely to anyone that disagrees with their theology. I find Rob Bell refreshing and real.

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

On the topic, that Rob Bell addresses I really like this CS Lewis quote:

 

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'

 

In the end I think we all get exactly what we want.

[HT721]

In the promotional video Bell also seems to suggest that Ghandi, someone who clearly rejected Christ as the masiah is in heaven. If that's true, then why do we need to do anything? That's my question and that's the trouble I've always seen in Bell and other teachers like him. It's not that they get it all wrong, or that they aren't thought provoking. It is the simple fact they seem to teach a sort of Christianity that is conveinent. Following Christ isn't about conveinence for the person, it's about sacraficing and carrying your cross daily in faith and service to God.

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

If that's true, ....

 

I would suggest you to be patient and wait to see if he is indeed promoting a Universalist theology or if the "teaser" in the promotional video is just that a teaser that leads to a more full discussion. Guys like Rob Bell are all about the diagogue, the journey, the discovery,.... the midrash.

 

I will say that trying to determine the location of where anyone (including Ghandi) is living out their eternity is somthing that I think is best left to God, since he is the only one who knows or who can make the determination. I have found that for me personally that is dangerous grounds for me to engage.

[Randy Parker]

In the promotional video Bell also seems to suggest that Ghandi, someone who clearly rejected Christ as the masiah is in heaven. If that's true, then why do we need to do anything? That's my question and that's the trouble I've always seen in Bell and other teachers like him. It's not that they get it all wrong, or that they aren't thought provoking. It is the simple fact they seem to teach a sort of Christianity that is conveinent. Following Christ isn't about conveinence for the person, it's about sacraficing and carrying your cross daily in faith and service to God.

 

I've seen quite a bit of Bell & really like some of what he has to say--namely his interpretation of Revelation. He's also often times very image-oriented in his teaching, which is something that really resonates with most people. There are other areas, however, where he really stretches things. This is not the first time Bell has flirted with a universalist theology.

[Alabama Larry]

I never heard of him, but one thing I like about this site is you can learn new things and I will research his writings.

 

RANDY, 2nd Timothy 3:16..All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

 

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the LORD himself will give you a sign.The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanual.

 

Micah 5:2 But you Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah out of you will come for me, one will be ruler of Israel.

 

In Judah there were actually two towns named Bethlehem.

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

2nd Timothy 3:16..All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

 

Some seem to have that correcting and rebuking down pretty well.

[HT721]

Some seem to have that correcting and rebuking down pretty well.

 

I'm just saying be weary. I won't say for sure where anyone is, because as stated above that's best left for God. However, from reading scripture I can say for if person X dies without ever having accepted Christ and his message they won't be in heaven. I don't say that to condemn them or because I want it to be true, it just is. No one goes to the Father accept through the Son.

[Alabama Larry]

I disagree ask Charlie Sheen and most of his world. Also look at thew Westboro jokers, I guess they never have read this verse or many others.

 

We all sin and fall short.

 

I get corrected/rebuked daily.

[HIGHLANDS GUY]

I'm just saying be weary. I won't say for sure where anyone is, because as stated above that's best left for God. However, from reading scripture I can say for if person X dies without ever having accepted Christ and his message they won't be in heaven. I don't say that to condemn them or because I want it to be true, it just is. No one goes to the Father accept through the Son.

 

While we know the Bible says that, we also know that God is just and that there are unreached people groups that have never heard of Jesus in order to even contimplate a choice. We can debate the issue at length, but the bottom line is we really don't know. I think the fact the fact that I can't fully wrap my brain around God is a good thing and more than anything I really believe that is the sentiment that is present in Rob Bell's works.

[Hatz]

Well, there's always Mary's response, "How can this be since I am a virgin?"

 

And again I say that if Mary was not a virgin, then she was not what Scripture claims her to be.

 

If you'll notice my post, I did not DENY the virgin birth. I merely pointed out the issues with using the Isaiah 7 text for that purpose.

[Randy Parker]

If you'll notice my post, I did not DENY the virgin birth. I merely pointed out the issues with using the Isaiah 7 text for that purpose.

 

Yes, I understand. I was just giving an additional counterpoint to those that might deny the virgin birth.

[Randy Parker]

While we know the Bible says that, we also know that God is just and that there are unreached people groups that have never heard of Jesus in order to even contimplate a choice. We can debate the issue at length, but the bottom line is we really don't know. I think the fact the fact that I can't fully wrap my brain around God is a good thing and more than anything I really believe that is the sentiment that is present in Rob Bell's works.

 

I've been in Scripture my entire life & there are a plethora of things that still leave me scratching my head. I believe it was Augustine who said, "Once we fully understand God, He stops being God."

 

What I do try to do, to the best of my ability, is "correctly handle" (2 Timothy 2:15) God's word. In other words, I try my best to avoid falling in the trap of what I've heard called "one-verse theology" where I take once verse or section of Scripture and build an entire theology around that. For example, people love using "Do not judge or you too will be judged" as an argument that we should never make any kind of judgment at any time. But when you look at Scripture as a whole, there's much more to the issue than just that verse.

 

I don't know what Rob Bell is putting forth in this book, and I'm not about to cast him aside as some sort of false prophet until I have given him a fair hearing. While I feel he has stretched things in the past, I find it hard to believe that he feels that in the end everyone will be saved & no one will receive punishment.