Everyone that is up set with the coach taking these kids to church, Tell me why no one brings up the issue when teams prays before and after games? I can tell you now that 90% of the teams that pray don't ask if anyone wants to leave before the prayer.

As a public school coach, what role should this person have in the faiths of his players? I certainly don't object to allowing the players to pray, or to the coach answering their questions about faith, mentoring them with wisdom garnered from the his faith, or what have you. However, when sixteen players get on a bus to go to a church to be baptized it tells me this coach is making an aggressive attempt to manipulate the faiths of his players. This broaches any line of decency for a public school. He is a coach, not a minister. It is out of line for him to be exerting pressure on them to switch to his faith. Furthermore, as a coach, the players may perceive that they will earn greater playing time or favor with the coach if they convert to his faith. That should not be a question in a public school.

 

Christians - and I am one - should not sit back and applaud this man's efforts. If this man truly influenced his players to believe in his faith they would not need to board a bus, together, to be baptized. I agree strongly with Hatz about making certain the baptized understand what they are doing. Otherwise, it is a dangerous, feel-good exercise with little religious consequence, particularly if these players eventually feel exploited and divert from the faith. If they were truly moved, the players would have pursued this on their own, and perhaps even invited their coach to attend the ceremony or accompany them to the church.

 

Great points, Habib.

Everyone that is up set with the coach taking these kids to church, Tell me why no one brings up the issue when teams prays before and after games? I can tell you now that 90% of the teams that pray don't ask if anyone wants to leave before the prayer.

 

Because the players may be religious, may ask to do it, and it is accepted by the team. At least that was the case when I played. And perhaps there is an incentive for the non-religious players or players of a different faith to keep quiet for fear of reprimand if the coach is overtly religious, but the magnitude of difference between a quick prayer and carting players off to a church is quite extreme.

Personally I believe that the act of baptism is important, but not vital to the process. Taking time to allow the kids to seek counsel from their parents and local pastor would have been wise to me.......... however, some churches believe that the process of being saved REQUIRES baptism. I don't know if that was the stance this church took, but it is one line of theology.

I have a lot of comments but I don't think I'll die in this particular ditch today.

Personally I believe that the act of baptism is important, but not vital to the process. Taking time to allow the kids to seek counsel from their parents and local pastor would have been wise to me.......... however, some churches believe that the process of being saved REQUIRES baptism. I don't know if that was the stance this church took, but it is one line of theology.

 

Most all Baptist churches I have seen DO NOT hold to baptism as an act of salvation but the culmination of a profession of faith (salvation) and the entrance into the "body of Christ."

 

What I have witnessed among far too many Baptist groups in my time is the attitude of "getting the numbers up." Many will "re-baptize" people by convincing them their first baptism was invalid because they were "too young" or just did not believe "all they should believe." That church never corresponds with the first church of record and often times there are people who hold dual or more memberships.

 

Two quick cases:

 

Over 20 years ago I knew a pastor that was counseling with a couple. They were there with him because of long ago ties to his church but the couple lived closer to another colleague and his church. The counseling pastor "led them to Christ" but knew that the couple would be going and attending the second pastor's church.

 

So the counseling pastor "baptized" them in a night ceremony with just himself, his spouse and the couple. Totally destroyed what Baptists view about baptism (the church baptizes,not an individual) in order to "count" these two among His baptisms at the first church.

 

 

Second case was recently here. A few years ago, one of our youth decided to attend a different Baptist church. She did this on her own (her family stayed in our church) and I thought it was a great experience in her faith. However their Youth Leader convinced her the original baptism she had was not "good enough" so they re-baptized her at the New Church she attended. They never contacted her parents or our church so that we could remove her name from our rolls.

 

Final case. We have an older lady with demensia. She is homebound and cared for by a nephew's family (no children). They took her to their little independent church. Then a few months ago, after some of her friends (our members) visited - the nephew called the church and asked us to no longer send any information from the church (newsletter) or come by to visit. She had "willingly" moved her membership to the new church and been baptized again.

 

 

Quite frankly, in all the above, the answer is not a kingdom issue but a numbers issues. I have no problems with any of the "professions of faith" (save the last one) but it is obvious to me some congregations feed on the numbers they achieve even when some numbers are couched in "less than honorable means." I feel this church's actions are bordering that.

 

Sorry for the rant but in this case, and in particular any case involving the Kingdom of God, the ends DO NOT justify the means.

FCA can use school facilities, buses (even if paid for by their own funds), and feed sports teams in the school....so what it the difference? No permission slip needed for any of that. THey didn't get on the bus after a game and go to church. The kids willingly went. Do kids call their parents now before doing illegal things? Nope! The point is, a coach allowed kids to go to his church. They are old enough to drive and make decisions that can cost them their lives. The kids weren't at a sex party, using drugs, or committing crime. They went to church, and made a decision that has saved them. They CHOOSE to believe!

 

I was a sophmore when I was saved. I did so at FCA camp. I wouldn't have gone without the encouragement of my COACH. I lived in a very non christian family, where drugs were prevailent. Without my coaches I would not have found Jesus Christ. I was one step away from juvenile detention and a really bad road. Thank God for my coach and his careing for me outside of football.

 

Kudos to you Scott. IF this is the cross you will bare, I support you 100%. We all answer to a higher purpose and there is room at the cross for you Coach Mooney. Heaven rejoices at the saving of all the young men you have influenced (over 15 kids were saved last year in his program!!!). You are doing great things in a VERY impoverished county hit hard by meth and other drugs. Many of your players come from single parent homes...keep up the work.:thumb:

 

I think yours is a great story that could have been better followed here.

 

Did the FCA group baptize you right away?

 

Did the church you eventually were to become a part of baptize you the very first service you attended?

 

That is my biggest problem with this story, much more so than the coach.

It is not against the rules guys......to help kids who voluntarily want to attend worship get there as a team outing. If they decide to get saved while they are there thats on them. Why would he be fired? What rules did he break? You might not agree but unless forced to go and forced to be dunked in the water its not illegal.

 

Now did he flirt with disaster yes, but still not illegal.

In my opinion, part of the problem is that this wasn't just a regular church service, it was a revival. And, this happened three days after the Breck Co. football team lost their former quarterback and a current classmate in a car accident. Lots of emotions going on in this service, no doubt. Allow them to publicly acknowledge their decision, but wait to talk with the parents before their baptism.

It is not against the rules guys......to help kids who voluntarily want to attend worship get there as a team outing. If they decide to get saved while they are there thats on them. Why would he be fired? What rules did he break? You might not agree but unless forced to go and forced to be dunked in the water its not illegal.

 

Now did he flirt with disaster yes, but still not illegal.

 

It is indeed against the rules. A trip to a religious service using school equipment (bus) is against the rules.

They didn't have permission. That's part of the problem. Apparently, very few of the parents were aware of what all was involved in this trip.

 

Secondly, and most importantly, because their parents weren't there, you don't really know that they decided of their "own free will." A high school coach has a great deal of power, influence, and persuasion over his players. You don't know if some of these kids felt obligated or even pressured to make some commitment they didn't fully understand or appreciate.

 

No one is claiming that having lives turned over to Christ is a bad thing. Far from it - it's a wonderful thing. But it is also a very personal thing and when it involves minors, it should also involve their parents/guardians.

 

I agree 100%. Also, it is ridiculous to compare taking the boys to church and being baptized to taking them to a restaurant as some have done. Apples and oranges.

 

It was wrong. I dont think the coach should be fired for it, but it was wrong.

What the heck was he thinking? I smell a "point of emphasis" for Coaches Education Classes.

If nothing else, everyone should be able to see that this is strikes passion in a lot of people. It is controversial. So why would you do this as a coach if you know it's going to be that way. How about respecting the parents that may not feel the same way as you. What would it have hurt to have waited and talked to the parents about it.

Didn't see it in the article. Was this on a Sunday?

Totally wrong and he should be fired.