I know many Christians are offended and feel that they are being persecuted but I think we need to take a step back for a moment and remember a few things.

 

There were many parts of this country in which non-Christians were discriminated against and/or treated differently for some time. Even some Christians who weren't Protestant were treated differently and discriminated against. While we may be taking things a tad bit further than is necessary to ensure no favoring of one religion over another we need to remember that it was long established that Christianity was favored over all others in America.

 

Laws preventing businesses from being open on Sundays is a very notable example. The fact some of our established Holidays are inherently Christian Holidays makes that pretty clear as well.

 

Christians are the majority in this country, but we need to understand that just because we are predominantly Christian doesn't mean that Christianity should dominate all others.

But coaches in most cases are the sponsors. So, wouldn't that still fit your description of

 

The fact of the matter is that an individual who is in a position of authority in a public school encouraged his students to join him in attending his church. I don't see how any rational individual could look at this as a good thing.

 

Remember at least some FCA meetings there is worship and prayer to God and Jesus as well as discussion of the plan of salvation.. Similar to the activities of church.

 

If that is indeed the case then I, logically, oppose having them in non-Christian schools.

If that is indeed the case then I, logically, oppose having them in non-Christian schools.

 

I think the Supreme Court has ruled that they are allowed and constitutional though.

 

On what grounds?

 

It is a student-led organization that requires a school sponsor not unlike any other club or student organization that is extra-curriculum.

 

It seems that we are getting so much in not wanting to endorse Christianity with our actions that we are actually sending a message to the youth of this country that they shouldn't consider Christianity because we are not kicking it out of so many of our parts of society.

 

No matter what action you take, you are taking a stand whether for or against something.

I think the Supreme Court has ruled that they are allowed and constitutional though.

 

On what grounds?

 

It is a student-led organization that requires a school sponsor not unlike any other club or student organization that is extra-curriculum.

 

It seems that we are getting so much in not wanting to endorse Christianity with our actions that we are actually sending a message to the youth of this country that they shouldn't consider Christianity because we are not kicking it out of so many of our parts of society.

 

No matter what action you take, you are taking a stand whether for or against something.

 

 

I would like to read the opinion on any cases regarding this at the Supreme Court level if you happen to know which one(s).

 

In essence I am against any attempt at religious conversion by any public school faculty. Thus if the moderator simply observes that is fine, but if the moderator participates and encourages it then I feel it has crossed the line.

 

Are we sending the same messages to our students regarding Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Wicca and Shamanism? People get so focused on the fact that they feel we are squeezing out Christianity we forget that other faiths have never had favored status in the States.

 

Since I don't think most people would simply sit back and observe I oppose them. Not based on any dislike of the groups or anything personal but simply as a point of order.

Hatz, can you give me biblical authority that states a person can not be Baptized multiple times?

I know many Christians are offended and feel that they are being persecuted but I think we need to take a step back for a moment and remember a few things.

 

There were many parts of this country in which non-Christians were discriminated against and/or treated differently for some time. Even some Christians who weren't Protestant were treated differently and discriminated against. While we may be taking things a tad bit further than is necessary to ensure no favoring of one religion over another we need to remember that it was long established that Christianity was favored over all others in America.

 

Laws preventing businesses from being open on Sundays is a very notable example. The fact some of our established Holidays are inherently Christian Holidays makes that pretty clear as well.

 

Christians are the majority in this country, but we need to understand that just because we are predominantly Christian doesn't mean that Christianity should dominate all others.

 

That is a societal view.

 

But if you take your Christianity seriously and believe Jesus' words that only through him will a person have eternal salvation and only through the Son will we know the Father, than not looking to have everyone commit their lives to Christ means eternal darnation (filter won't let me say it the other way:D) to the lake of fire for them.

 

And Obamacare will not have any way to address that.

Hatz, can you give me biblical authority that states a person can not be Baptized multiple times?

 

This is not true.

In Acts, Paul asks someone whose baptism they had and they said John's.

He told them that they needed to have the baptism of the Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

And, emotionally (as someone alluded that we shouldn't do earlier), they went got out of the cart they were in and went to a stream and was baptized.

I would like to read the opinion on any cases regarding this at the Supreme Court level if you happen to know which one(s).

 

In essence I am against any attempt at religious conversion by any public school faculty. Thus if the moderator simply observes that is fine, but if the moderator participates and encourages it then I feel it has crossed the line.

 

Are we sending the same messages to our students regarding Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Wicca and Shamanism? People get so focused on the fact that they feel we are squeezing out Christianity we forget that other faiths have never had favored status in the States.

 

Since I don't think most people would simply sit back and observe I oppose them. Not based on any dislike of the groups or anything personal but simply as a point of order.

 

So, the sponsor should give no advice, support, guidance for the students. They are just left on their own to find their own way?

 

That is sending a message to the youth in that group that the sponsor does not think this is important to put their time, effort or energy into. And in essence they are taking a stance AGAINST Christianity.

That is a societal view.

 

But if you take your Christianity seriously and believe Jesus' words that only through him will a person have eternal salvation and only through the Son will we know the Father, than not looking to have everyone commit their lives to Christ means eternal darnation (filter won't let me say it the other way:D) to the lake of fire for them.

 

And Obamacare will not have any way to address that.

 

You and I will never see eye to eye on this issue I suspect. Your opinion on Christianity has told me that much over the years.

 

I look to matters of government, law and international relations as amoral. As such all religions are to be looked at the same way. In my heart I may not feel that way, but on subjects such as this the heart is not a rational decision maker and must be shut out in order to make a reasoned decision based on the law.

I would like to read the opinion on any cases regarding this at the Supreme Court level if you happen to know which one(s).

 

In essence I am against any attempt at religious conversion by any public school faculty. Thus if the moderator simply observes that is fine, but if the moderator participates and encourages it then I feel it has crossed the line.

 

Are we sending the same messages to our students regarding Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Wicca and Shamanism? People get so focused on the fact that they feel we are squeezing out Christianity we forget that other faiths have never had favored status in the States.

 

Since I don't think most people would simply sit back and observe I oppose them. Not based on any dislike of the groups or anything personal but simply as a point of order.

 

Honest and serious question Pep.

 

Which is more important to you and the 1st thing that drives your decisions in this country, your faith or your view of how this country was setup?

 

If you believe in Jesus Christ and judgement day, which will God be more concerned with, your actions regarding your faith or your commitment to democracy and protecting non-Christian faiths?

So, the sponsor should give no advice, support, guidance for the students. They are just left on their own to find their own way?

 

That is sending a message to the youth in that group that the sponsor does not think this is important to put their time, effort or energy into. And in essence they are taking a stance AGAINST Christianity.

 

 

Not at all, they are simply not saying anything for or against. To you this seems to be the case, because you are so filled with religious fervor.

 

If the students want guidance then they can bring in speakers of a religious nature to offer guidance and instruction. That is not the job of a government employee though on government property.

You and I will never see eye to eye on this issue I suspect. Your opinion on Christianity has told me that much over the years.

 

I look to matters of government, law and international relations as amoral. As such all religions are to be looked at the same way. In my heart I may not feel that way, but on subjects such as this the heart is not a rational decision maker and must be shut out in order to make a reasoned decision based on the law.

 

The bolded means? No morals when making decisions?

Not at all, they are simply not saying anything for or against. To you this seems to be the case, because you are so filled with religious fervor.

 

If the students want guidance then they can bring in speakers of a religious nature to offer guidance and instruction. That is not the job of a government employee though on government property.

 

I was FCA sponsor for several years.

When the students asked me about what they could do to attract more students into their club, knowing that I was a marketing teacher, in your opinion, how should I have answered?

Honest and serious question Pep.

 

Which is more important to you and the 1st thing that drives your decisions in this country, your faith or your view of how this country was setup?

 

If you believe in Jesus Christ and judgement day, which will God be more concerned with, your actions regarding your faith or your commitment to democracy and protecting non-Christian faiths?

 

My faith and my politics exist separately, simple as that. You are incapable of divorcing yourself of them and that is fine. I however choose to do so. If you feel as though I am walking down the path to eternal darnation then it is your prerogative and I will not try to dissuade you of that view.

 

My decisions are based on logical reasoning considering a cost-benefit analysis regarding human nature in its natural sense (as best as I can manage). I have already illustrated my political beliefs in other threads and I would rather not do so again here. I would PM it to you if you so desire.

You and I will never see eye to eye on this issue I suspect. Your opinion on Christianity has told me that much over the years.

 

I look to matters of government, law and international relations as amoral. As such all religions are to be looked at the same way. In my heart I may not feel that way, but on subjects such as this the heart is not a rational decision maker and must be shut out in order to make a reasoned decision based on the law.

 

First, I always enjoy our discussions as you challenge me to think.

 

Which do you think God will be more concerned with on Judgement Day, The rational decision maker that was based on law or the heart that sung out to Him and was ignored?

 

You say I have religious fervor and I don't believe I do as I am not religious as this country defines it.

 

But what I do consider is, what is God going to say and think of my actions and thoughts and words when that day comes that every knee bows and every tongue confesses.