My faith and my politics exist separately, simple as that. You are incapable of divorcing yourself of them and that is fine. I however choose to do so. If you feel as though I am walking down the path to eternal darnation then it is your prerogative and I will not try to dissuade you of that view.

 

My decisions are based on logical reasoning considering a cost-benefit analysis regarding human nature in its natural sense (as best as I can manage). I have already illustrated my political beliefs in other threads and I would rather not do so again here. I would PM it to you if you so desire.

 

I am not incapable but rather choose not to do so.

 

I feel that what God thinks of me on Judgement Day is more important than what society wants me to do.

The bolded means? No morals when making decisions?

 

Morals are based on the society from which they originate. When you have differing societies you have competing moralities, they conflict and lead to problems. Pragmatism is more useful than morality where a governmental body is concerned.

 

Individually morality is a good thing and essential in many ways. Governments should be pragmatic and operate within laws, nothing more.

I was FCA sponsor for several years.

When the students asked me about what they could do to attract more students into their club, knowing that I was a marketing teacher, in your opinion, how should I have answered?

 

You could teach them the basic tenets of marketing but I wouldn't think anything more than that. It is up to them from there to figure out how to use it.

Morals are based on the society from which they originate. When you have differing societies you have competing moralities, they conflict and lead to problems. Pragmatism is more useful than morality where a governmental body is concerned.

 

Individually morality is a good thing and essential in many ways. Governments should be pragmatic and operate within laws, nothing more.

 

I will probably surprise you and say that I think separation of church and state is actually a good thing.

 

What I think is...

What God does not want is an empty faith that has no actions or works behind it.

He does not want a stale, non-feeling prayer that is forced onto people but rather one that a person BELIEVES and FEELS.

 

Our country has moved away from siding onto the side of Christianity to a mindset that they are trying so hard NOT TO, that they are actually siding AGAINST Christianity.

 

The rules that people can say prayers but you are not allowed to mention the name Jesus is an example of that.

Saying that a Christian Coach cannot bow their head because that would be some sort of sign endorsing Christianity is an example of that.

You could teach them the basic tenets of marketing but I wouldn't think anything more than that. It is up to them from there to figure out how to use it.

 

Would you agree that to teenagers, what you imply of a non-supportive sponsor would be actually sending a message that the sponsor does not care about the FCA club?

 

There is an old saying in education, Students won't care till they know that you care.

Would you agree that to teenagers, what you imply of a non-supportive sponsor would be actually sending a message that the sponsor does not care about the FCA club?

 

There is an old saying in education, Students won't care till they know that you care.

 

That may well be the case, but if the students already have the desire to start a chapter of the FCA then they would already have the interest. If their fervor is truly genuine then the neutral moderator should be neither boon nor hindrance.

That may well be the case, but if the students already have the desire to start a chapter of the FCA then they would already have the interest. If their fervor is truly genuine then the neutral moderator should be neither boon nor hindrance.

 

So a sports team made up of athletes with fervor that is truly genuine could succeed with a neutral coach that is neither a boon nor a hindrance?

So a sports team made up of athletes with fervor that is truly genuine could succeed with a neutral coach that is neither a boon nor a hindrance?

 

The nature of a religious club takes it beyond the same tenets as an athletic team.

 

Besides there is no separation of football and state.

The nature of a religious club takes it beyond the same tenets as an athletic team.

 

Besides there is no separation of football and state.

 

But you are dealing with teenagers and they don't see it that way.

They see an adult there to sponsor and help them that does not care.

And the message is sent to them that Christianity is not worth the time and effort.

 

And I don't see why it is? The students of FCA and the athletes of a football team deserve the same effort of the adult sponsor.

.

 

Besides there is no separation of football and state.

 

This comment led me to a thought, you might be able to answer.

 

When a public school travels to play a private school, is it legal for the public school kids to have to listen to a Christian prayer before the game?

 

Does St. X, Trinity, etc prayer before a game in front of the whole crowd? Are there Christian outreach programs going on in the crowd? If there were, would they be legal since you are having public school kids in attendance.

But you are dealing with teenagers and they don't see it that way.

They see an adult there to sponsor and help them that does not care.

And the message is sent to them that Christianity is not worth the time and effort.

 

And I don't see why it is? The students of FCA and the athletes of a football team deserve the same effort of the adult sponsor.

 

The question is though, is a public school the appropriate place for a club like that to exist? If the members met outside of school at a church with a minister or priest and just advertised in school then it would be different. Besides the sponsor may indeed care, but as a government employee cannot be asked to favor any religion.

 

I simply am against anything that appears to be a government endorsement of religion no matter which it is.

 

The faith of the student is not the business of the school.

 

This does offer up quite the conundrum in the manner in which you have presented it though.

http://www.au.org/take-action/report-a-violation/faqs/can-churches-and-other.html

 

The U.S. Constitution allows governments (federal, state, and local) to open up their public facilities — such as public-school buildings and public libraries — for use by religious groups.

 

For example, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that where a public school allowed its building to be used by any group promoting "the moral and character development of children," the school could not deny access to a club that taught children to memorize Bible verses, read Bible stories to them, and concluded its sessions with a prayer. The Court reasoned that the club sought to teach morals and character to children — thus addressing a permitted subject matter — and that the religious nature of the club's teachings simply reflected the club's viewpoint, just as another group could teach morals and character from a secular perspective.

Biblically, I can no more choose for my children their status of faith than any other parent can.

I would say the Bible would very much disagree with you. It's the parent's most holy duty to guide and teach their children in the faith. For a public employee to deny them the right of inclusion in a holy rite involving their child is both illegal and immoral.

I would say the Bible would very much disagree with you. It's the parent's most holy duty to guide and teach their children in the faith. For a public employee to deny them the right of inclusion in a holy rite involving their child is both illegal and immoral.

 

Where did I say guide and teach?

I said CHOOSE.

Absolutely GUIDE AND TEACH is one of our most important duties as parents.

But I can't choose for either of my children to get baptized.

That is the core of the reason I don't support infant baptism. THat is me (and admittingly I would HAVE LOVED TO HAVE DONE THAT. Would have saved me years of worry) choosing their salvation for them.

 

I don't see where the public employee denied them the right of anything. I believe it was a revival that the public was invited to.

I feel that what God thinks of me on Judgement Day is more important than what society wants me to do.

 

Which do you think God will be more concerned with on Judgement Day, The rational decision maker that was based on law or the heart that sung out to Him and was ignored?

As a member of society, you are bound by its dictates. Jesus taught that you should follow the law.