Punching above your weight class

[DevilMayCare]

The KHSAA's recent decision to shelve the option of playing up in class led to a few comments in the realignment thread about teams that would/could have won championships in higher classes. It got me thinking about champion vs. champion encounters in the regular season where the smaller school wins and both teams go on to win their respective class.

- The first such occurrence that immediately came to mind was '98 Highlands taking its first step toward immortality by besting eventual 4A champ Male in a Week 1 bowl game. 

- Defense and special teams won the day for Danville in 2017, as the winners of class 2A eked out a 10-7 win over 3A champ Boyle County on a field goal inside the final minute. 

- Belfry has been involved in three such occurrences during its run as 3A kingpin: They emerged victorious over 4A champion Johnson Central in an epic 2016 battle for the ages. Both rolled to state titles a few weeks later. On the losing end, Pikeville edged the Pirates by a point in 2019 and worked them over by four scores in 2021 on their way to a pair of 1A titles while Belfry would regroup to win 3A each time. 

That's all I could come up with without delving into some record books, which yielded only two more - both of which will trigger a stroll down memory lane for the Fort Mitchell crowd.

- A deeper dive led me to Beechwood, who defeated eventual 3A champion Covington Catholic in both '94 and '97 on their way to claiming 1A titles during their decade of domination in the 90s. That's 1A over 3A in the old four class system. 

That's seven that I know of. If anyone knows of any others, please add them here.

To add on to this thread, who are some other teams that could have successfully "punched up" in class? Could Boyle County have won 3A in 2000, 4A in 2003, or 6A last year? What about Bowling Green winning 6A in '13 or '16?

In most cases, the degree of difficulty dramatically changed in 2007. Winning one class higher now doesn't quite mean what it did prior to '07. And it's not necessarily just a matter of how good the smaller school was, but rather how good they were relative to the higher class that year.

[Breds82]

Great topic. I have to get my old man glasses on and do some research. Hopefully everyone can bring up great and bad moments. Happy 4th everyone.

[Jack of all Trades]

I will put one out there.  The 1982 Highlands team opened against Christian County in the Recreation Bowl in Mt Sterling.  Each went on to win the 3A and 4A titles respectively.  This was the only blemish on Christian County’s record that year and Highlands became the first team in Kentucky Football history to go 15-0.

[DevilMayCare]

28 minutes ago, Jack of all Trades said:

I will put one out there.  The 1982 Highlands team opened against Christian County in the Recreation Bowl in Mt Sterling.  Each went on to win the 3A and 4A titles respectively.  This was the only blemish on Christian County’s record that year and Highlands became the first team in Kentucky Football history to go 15-0.

 

Good one. This makes eight. 

These are all hypothetical to one degree or another, but a head to head result like this one or one of the games in the original post makes for a more definitive answer to the question, "could this team have won a higher class?". In this case, yes, Highlands could have, or perhaps even would have won the big school title in '82.

[DevilMayCare]

Any takers on Bowling Green winning 6A in 2013 or 2016? 

The Purples beat St. Xavier both years by multiple scores. These were not exactly banner years for the Tigers, but X is formidable even in their "off" years. No one else in-state was beating them by those margins besides Trinity.

Without head to head competition against the '13 & '16 6A champions, we have to resort to comparing scores, hardly a fool proof method.

That's only possible in 2016, when the Purples and 6A champ Trinity both played X. The Rocks beat them twice, 35-13 in the regular season and 24-14 in the playoffs. BG handled X 31-10 in Week 3. When Trinity's "on", they're a different animal. I'm definitely not favoring BG to run the 6A gauntlet and beat T in the finals. At best, I think it's a coin flip, even with Mr. Football Jamale Carothers toting the rock for BG. 

The 2013 season was an odd year. Like last year, the 'Big 3' were out of sorts, allowing Scott County to grab the brass ring. BG and the Cards had no common opponents, but with 6A wide open that year, Mr. Football Nacarius Fant and Co. would have to like their chances. 

[Voice of Reason]

This one does not meet your requirement of beating a higher class champion, but it is about as close as you can get to making the argument the team could have won a higher class title without that head to head win on their resume - 2021 Beechwood Tigers.

I would argue this is the best team that Coach Rash had in his tenure at Beechwood. Undefeated state champion in 2A. Finished the year #6 in the state per calpreps.com. But the main argument comes from who Beechwood beat in their last two games.

In the semifinals, Beechwood dismantled Mayfield 38-7. Mayfield owned a 42-28 win over Paducah Tighlman, who narrowly lost to Belfry in the 3A title game. 

The real argument for Beechwood though comes from their win over LCA in the 2A title game. That was the LCA team that people were saying may be the best team in the entire state. LCA rolled through a gauntlet of a schedule. LCA defeated 1A champion Pikeville 31-14, which was Pikeville's only loss and Pikeville owned a 29-0 pasting of 3A champion Belfry. LCA defeated 6A semifinalist Madison Central 21-12, basically the same margin by which 6A champion defeated Madison Central. And, LCA handed 4A champion Boyle County their only loss. With those wins, hard to fault BGP rankings for leapfrogging LCA over undefeated Beechwood in their 2A rankings. No one outside Ft. Mitchell thought Beechwood could beat that super LCA team - but Beechwood did beat LCA and became undefeated 15-0 2A champion.

I say Beechwood definitely beats Belfry in 3A. Definitely is capable of beating Boyle County in 4A. It is a big jump from a smaller 2A school to argue they could have won in 5A or 6A, but only 3 teams scored more than 1 TD against that Beechwood defense. The Tigers defense would have kept them in the game against anyone in 2021.

[DevilMayCare]

3 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

This one does not meet your requirement of beating a higher class champion, but it is about as close as you can get to making the argument the team could have won a higher class title without that head to head win on their resume - 2021 Beechwood Tigers.

I would argue this is the best team that Coach Rash had in his tenure at Beechwood. Undefeated state champion in 2A. Finished the year #6 in the state per calpreps.com. But the main argument comes from who Beechwood beat in their last two games.

In the semifinals, Beechwood dismantled Mayfield 38-7. Mayfield owned a 42-28 win over Paducah Tighlman, who narrowly lost to Belfry in the 3A title game. 

The real argument for Beechwood though comes from their win over LCA in the 2A title game. That was the LCA team that people were saying may be the best team in the entire state. LCA rolled through a gauntlet of a schedule. LCA defeated 1A champion Pikeville 31-14, which was Pikeville's only loss and Pikeville owned a 29-0 pasting of 3A champion Belfry. LCA defeated 6A semifinalist Madison Central 21-12, basically the same margin by which 6A champion defeated Madison Central. And, LCA handed 4A champion Boyle County their only loss. With those wins, hard to fault BGP rankings for leapfrogging LCA over undefeated Beechwood in their 2A rankings. No one outside Ft. Mitchell thought Beechwood could beat that super LCA team - but Beechwood did beat LCA and became undefeated 15-0 2A champion.

I say Beechwood definitely beats Belfry in 3A. Definitely is capable of beating Boyle County in 4A. It is a big jump from a smaller 2A school to argue they could have won in 5A or 6A, but only 3 teams scored more than 1 TD against that Beechwood defense. The Tigers defense would have kept them in the game against anyone in 2021.

 

Beechwood had the strongest case for being the top team in the bottom three classes - they would get my vote - and would have been a major factor in 4A. Running the 4A playoff gauntlet and having to beat Johnson Central, or Corbin, or Franklin County, or Lexington Catholic, or some combination of those teams just to get to Boyle County would have been tough, though.

[Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, DevilMayCare said:

 

Beechwood had the strongest case for being the top team in the bottom three classes - they would get my vote - and would have been a major factor in 4A. Running the 4A playoff gauntlet and having to beat Johnson Central, or Corbin, or Franklin County, or Lexington Catholic, or some combination of those teams just to get to Boyle County would have been tough, though.

I will add this to consider. If LCA had beaten Beechwood and become undefeated 2A champion, what would people be saying about their chances in higher divisions?

[theguru]

23 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I will add this to consider. If LCA had beaten Beechwood and become undefeated 2A champion, what would people be saying about their chances in higher divisions?

A lot!

[Bluebird]

Highlands in 2000 beat Trinity with ease to open the season at a bowl game in Montgomery County.  Trinity rebounded to get to the championship game which they lost to Male.  I believe the Bluebirds would have had a good shot at winning vs Male that year.

[DevilMayCare]

22 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I will add this to consider. If LCA had beaten Beechwood and become undefeated 2A champion, what would people be saying about their chances in higher divisions?

It would have been a different story if LCA had won, especially in convincing fashion. We'd have crowned them champions of the world. They were getting a lot of ink that season while putting together maybe the greatest small school resumé ever. Now, history will remember them as the greatest small school team to not win it all.

The Beechwood way is understated and not reliant on loads of D1 talent, which LCA had that year. The perception is different, even if they do nothing but win. More steak than sizzle for the Tigers. I think that actually hurts them in these conversations. It shouldn't.

[DevilMayCare]

10 hours ago, Bluebird said:

Highlands in 2000 beat Trinity with ease to open the season at a bowl game in Montgomery County.  Trinity rebounded to get to the championship game which they lost to Male.  I believe the Bluebirds would have had a good shot at winning vs Male that year.

That was an interesting year, with multiple teams that I think could have played up and won. Highlands had the goods to contend in 4A, but I think Boyle County would have given the Birds a fight in 3A. 

[DevilMayCare]

For anyone that wants to compare Highlands and Boyle County from 2000, here's a visual aid:

The Bluebirds vs. Elder (OH)

 

The Rebels vs. Glasgow in the AA Finals

 

[Hatz]

43 minutes ago, DevilMayCare said:

For anyone that wants to compare Highlands and Boyle County from 2000, here's a visual aid:

The Bluebirds vs. Elder (OH)

 

The Rebels vs. Glasgow in the AA Finals

 

Both teams had a lot of Division 1 players. 

[Hatz]

Some thoughts on Danville teams. 
 

1984 Admirals. 13-0. Playing up in AAA. 
 

1992, 1993 Ads. First one was unbeaten and won AA. 93 was maybe better beating AAA runner up and AAAA Runnerup before being upset by 1 in OT semifinal loss.