Social Health/Mental Health

[theguru]

So many thoughts come to mind here.

First and foremost, the good, lawful, peaceful members of society should in no way be held accountable for the bad actions of others and under no circumstances should the good people lose any rights or suffer any consequences because the actions of "bad" people.

Any "solutions" would be overly cost-prohibitive and require a gross invasion of everyone's privacy.

Public education has been failing us for decades and it is getting worse.

The rule of law in America is teetering on collapse.

The rich/elite mostly get away with crimes that would land us commoners in jail for years.

Our caveman brains are not equipped to handle the constant stimulation the digital revolution and the 24 hour news cycle throw at us.

We focus way too much on blaming others/groups for the actions of individuals.

Rampant inflation exacerbates preexisting conditions.

Our open southern border exacerbates everything negative.

Draconian COVID lockdown and masking policies divided everyone and probably did more to harm social/mental health than anything we have ever experienced. 

Arbitrary restrictions on free speech and cancel culture divide us and undermine America.

Demonizing police officers only leads to a more dangerous society.

No bail or low bail policies threaten us all.

Some people are mentally ill and using their actions/crimes as a platform to label/attack groups of people is divisive. 

The breakdown of the nuclear family has a negative impact on society.

The equity agenda is not equality and divides us. 

Focusing on skin color, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, etc., divides us.

Religion divides us.

Climate change divides us.

Homelessness is out of control and detracts from civilized society. 

Artificial Intelligence and Automation are slowly but surely putting human beings out of work.

And on and on and on...

I am rather pessimistic on this topic, there are far too many factors exacerbating the decline of our social/mental health and I only see it getting worse.  

Ultimately when our health gets worse it leads to suffering, violence, and death.

 

[Beechwoodfan]

Well, this is right up my alley as I have worked in this field for over 20 years.  I could talk all day on the problems with mental health care but will try to get it down to a few bullet points.

1) Money.  Insurance companies don’t want to pay for quality mental health care.  We used to be able to keep truly mentally ill people for a month to get back on their meds.  They were able to take day trips before discharge so families could see how they were doing and/ or case managers could establish them in group homes or apartments.  These days it’s 3 days to a week and then people are thrown back on the streets and expected to navigate a very difficult, understaffed out patient mental health system. End result is a revolving dysfunctional door of the same people coming and going which costs more in the long run IMO.

 

2) Abuse of the system.  You would be surprised how many people want the mentally ill label so they can get a check.  They show up with all kinds of made up symptoms and drain already scant resources.

3) Drug/alcohol abuse.  Not a day goes by that we have 6-12 people show up in our psyc ER “ drunkacidal or drugacidal”  Some are so out of it the police bring them in as psychotic or unable to care for self.  Usually the police mean well, but sometimes they use us as a drunk tank so they don’t have to arrest them.  Quite often drunk/ drugged homeless people will call 911 claiming to be suicidal.  They are rarely mentally ill.  They are just trying to find a warm bed to crash in.  Amazingly, the next day, they wake up sober demanding to be discharged.  It is not unusual to see the same people show up 2-3 times a week.  By law, we cannot refuse to see them, and we obviously cannot put them out once they come.  We do find rehab beds for those who truly want drug/alcohol  care, but they have the same money problem as point #1.  We occasionally force repeat offenders in rehab in an effort to stop the cycle, but forcing someone into rehab when they don’t really want it is futile.

4) The justice system.  I will say that the police/judges overall mean well, but they are very reluctant to arrest or incarcerate mentally ill people.  The vast majority of mentally ill people are not dangerous, but some are.    Of the ones who are dangerous, most are perfectly capable of making rational decisions.  They are violent because they know they can get away with it.  Conversely, those who are violent, who cannot help in in the moment, should still be held responsible for their actions as well. A couple of years ago, I was punched in the face by a very manic young man.  When he is on his meds, he is the nicest guy you would ever know.  He just refuses to stay on his meds.  I was the 4th health care worker that he assaulted in the last 2 years.  I am a firm believer that patients who are known to be violent, have the responsibility to stay on medication, or suffer the consequences for their behavior when they do not.  I cannot tell you how difficult the police made it for me to press charges or how reluctant the DA was to prosecute him.  Ultimately, he was never arrested or prosecuted.  His cycle of violence goes on.

 

5) Long term care.  Back in the 60’s-70’s, most long term mental health facilities were shut down due to horrific abuse of patients.  In a well meaning move, mentally ill people were “mainstreamed” into society.  Mainstreamed is a kind way of saying that they were dumped in the streets and left to navigate an underfunded and over stretched out patient system.  Some patients do quite well, but some do not.  It breaks my heart to see how much some of our patients struggle to make it in the real world.  They are simply too sick, regardless of whether they are on meds.  I would love to see humane long term facilities come back.

6) Evil does not equate with mental illness.  People who shoot up schools/grocery stores are evil.  Yes, they likely have been involved in the mental health system due to past bad behaviors.  I have met/interviewed a handful of truly soul less, evil people who have zero empathy for anyone. Most are a product of a terrible upbringing, but some are just born that way.   There is no fixing evil. If they have the organizational skills to plan and carry out these horrific crimes, they definitely know right from wrong. They just do not care.

Whew!  Sorry for the length of this!

 

[ChickenWyngz]

4 minutes ago, Beechwoodfan said:

Well, this is right up my alley as I have worked in this field for over 20 years.  I could talk all day on the problems with mental health care but will try to get it down to a few bullet points.

1) Money.  Insurance companies don’t want to pay for quality mental health care.  We used to be able to keep truly mentally ill people for a month to get back on their meds.  They were able to take day trips before discharge so families could see how they were doing and/ or case managers could establish them in group homes or apartments.  These days it’s 3 days to a week and then people are thrown back on the streets and expected to navigate a very difficult, understaffed out patient mental health system. End result is a revolving dysfunctional door of the same people coming and going which costs more in the long run IMO.

 

2) Abuse of the system.  You would be surprised how many people want the mentally ill label so they can get a check.  They show up with all kinds of made up symptoms and drain already scant resources.

3) Drug/alcohol abuse.  Not a day goes by that we have 6-12 people show up in our psyc ER “ drunkacidal or drugacidal”  Some are so out of it the police bring them in as psychotic or unable to care for self.  Usually the police mean well, but sometimes they use us as a drunk tank so they don’t have to arrest them.  Quite often drunk/ drugged homeless people will call 911 claiming to be suicidal.  They are rarely mentally ill.  They are just trying to find a warm bed to crash in.  Amazingly, the next day, they wake up sober demanding to be discharged.  It is not unusual to see the same people show up 2-3 times a week.  By law, we cannot refuse to see them, and we obviously cannot put them out once they come.  We do find rehab beds for those who truly want drug/alcohol  care, but they have the same money problem as point #1.  We occasionally force repeat offenders in rehab in an effort to stop the cycle, but forcing someone into rehab when they don’t really want it is futile.

4) The justice system.  I will say that the police/judges overall mean well, but they are very reluctant to arrest or incarcerate mentally ill people.  The vast majority of mentally ill people are not dangerous, but some are.    Of the ones who are dangerous, most are perfectly capable of making rational decisions.  They are violent because they know they can get away with it.  Conversely, those who are violent, who cannot help in in the moment, should still be held responsible for their actions as well. A couple of years ago, I was punched in the face by a very manic young man.  When he is on his meds, he is the nicest guy you would ever know.  He just refuses to stay on his meds.  I was the 4th health care worker that he assaulted in the last 2 years.  I am a firm believer that patients who are known to be violent, have the responsibility to stay on medication, or suffer the consequences for their behavior when they do not.  I cannot tell you how difficult the police made it for me to press charges or how reluctant the DA was to prosecute him.  Ultimately, he was never arrested or prosecuted.  His cycle of violence goes on.

 

5) Long term care.  Back in the 60’s-70’s, most long term mental health facilities were shut down due to horrific abuse of patients.  In a well meaning move, mentally ill people were “mainstreamed” into society.  Mainstreamed is a kind way of saying that they were dumped in the streets and left to navigate an underfunded and over stretched out patient system.  Some patients do quite well, but some do not.  It breaks my heart to see how much some of our patients struggle to make it in the real world.  They are simply too sick, regardless of whether they are on meds.  I would love to see humane long term facilities come back.

6) Evil does not equate with mental illness.  People who shoot up schools/grocery stores are evil.  Yes, they likely have been involved in the mental health system due to past bad behaviors.  I have met/interviewed a handful of truly soul less, evil people who have zero empathy for anyone. Most are a product of a terrible upbringing, but some are just born that way.   There is no fixing evil. If they have the organizational skills to plan and carry out these horrific crimes, they definitely know right from wrong. They just do not care.

Whew!  Sorry for the length of this!

 

Unfortunately being a public school teacher has conditioned me to not even be a little shocked by the bolded portion. People do the exact same with their kids. 

[theguru]

31 minutes ago, Beechwoodfan said:

Well, this is right up my alley as I have worked in this field for over 20 years.  I could talk all day on the problems with mental health care but will try to get it down to a few bullet points.

1) Money.  Insurance companies don’t want to pay for quality mental health care.  We used to be able to keep truly mentally ill people for a month to get back on their meds.  They were able to take day trips before discharge so families could see how they were doing and/ or case managers could establish them in group homes or apartments.  These days it’s 3 days to a week and then people are thrown back on the streets and expected to navigate a very difficult, understaffed out patient mental health system. End result is a revolving dysfunctional door of the same people coming and going which costs more in the long run IMO.

 

2) Abuse of the system.  You would be surprised how many people want the mentally ill label so they can get a check.  They show up with all kinds of made up symptoms and drain already scant resources.

3) Drug/alcohol abuse.  Not a day goes by that we have 6-12 people show up in our psyc ER “ drunkacidal or drugacidal”  Some are so out of it the police bring them in as psychotic or unable to care for self.  Usually the police mean well, but sometimes they use us as a drunk tank so they don’t have to arrest them.  Quite often drunk/ drugged homeless people will call 911 claiming to be suicidal.  They are rarely mentally ill.  They are just trying to find a warm bed to crash in.  Amazingly, the next day, they wake up sober demanding to be discharged.  It is not unusual to see the same people show up 2-3 times a week.  By law, we cannot refuse to see them, and we obviously cannot put them out once they come.  We do find rehab beds for those who truly want drug/alcohol  care, but they have the same money problem as point #1.  We occasionally force repeat offenders in rehab in an effort to stop the cycle, but forcing someone into rehab when they don’t really want it is futile.

4) The justice system.  I will say that the police/judges overall mean well, but they are very reluctant to arrest or incarcerate mentally ill people.  The vast majority of mentally ill people are not dangerous, but some are.    Of the ones who are dangerous, most are perfectly capable of making rational decisions.  They are violent because they know they can get away with it.  Conversely, those who are violent, who cannot help in in the moment, should still be held responsible for their actions as well. A couple of years ago, I was punched in the face by a very manic young man.  When he is on his meds, he is the nicest guy you would ever know.  He just refuses to stay on his meds.  I was the 4th health care worker that he assaulted in the last 2 years.  I am a firm believer that patients who are known to be violent, have the responsibility to stay on medication, or suffer the consequences for their behavior when they do not.  I cannot tell you how difficult the police made it for me to press charges or how reluctant the DA was to prosecute him.  Ultimately, he was never arrested or prosecuted.  His cycle of violence goes on.

 

5) Long term care.  Back in the 60’s-70’s, most long term mental health facilities were shut down due to horrific abuse of patients.  In a well meaning move, mentally ill people were “mainstreamed” into society.  Mainstreamed is a kind way of saying that they were dumped in the streets and left to navigate an underfunded and over stretched out patient system.  Some patients do quite well, but some do not.  It breaks my heart to see how much some of our patients struggle to make it in the real world.  They are simply too sick, regardless of whether they are on meds.  I would love to see humane long term facilities come back.

6) Evil does not equate with mental illness.  People who shoot up schools/grocery stores are evil.  Yes, they likely have been involved in the mental health system due to past bad behaviors.  I have met/interviewed a handful of truly soul less, evil people who have zero empathy for anyone. Most are a product of a terrible upbringing, but some are just born that way.   There is no fixing evil. If they have the organizational skills to plan and carry out these horrific crimes, they definitely know right from wrong. They just do not care.

Whew!  Sorry for the length of this!

 

Thanks for all of that @Beechwoodfan!

Like I mentioned above, there is not enough money to throw at this problem so money is not going to solve it.

I think you are being unfair to the police.  Let me explain.  When someone is “drunkacidal or drugacidal” as you stated, the proper thing for a third party to do is call the police.  Once the police encounter such persons they have a duty to act.  The police basically have three choices, talk them down/counsel them on the scene, take them to jail, or take them to the hospital.  The goal is always voluntary compliance so counseling them is the preferred option and it often works.  If the police have to act further they have two choices, jail or hospital.  For me, and for all the officers I worked with, taking someone to jail in a case like this is about 10 minutes of paperwork and a ride to and from the county jail.  Very simple, easy, and definitely our preferred course of action.  However, often times the jail will refuse to accept a “drunkacidal or drugacidal” subject from the police thus forcing us to take them to the hospital.  In other words, at least in my experience, no police officer wants to take someone to the hospital instead of the jail (jails should be equipped for this in my opinion).  When you take someone to the hospital you have to wait around for an hour or more, nurses and doctors second guess you (checks and balances are fine but it goes beyond this at times), and you have to do more paperwork including a form about restraining someone who is mentally ill (and ideally not supposed to be restrained) yet still a threat to the police officer.  I am telling you, no one I worked with wanted the hospital option.  Therefore, police officers become a pawn in this system and you get it from all directions and it isn't fair to the police.  Society says solve the problem, the jail sometimes says it is not our problem, and sometimes the hospital says it isn't our problem either but it is a problem to be solved and again the police are just a pawn in this game.  With all that said, if a police officer ever tells you she/he is bringing someone to the hospital so they don't have to arrest them they have been trained improperly and/or they should have chosen a career path in social work or mental health.  To be clear, if a police officer tells you he/she is bringing someone to the hospital so they don't have to arrest them the police officer is part of the problem in that instance.

On being assaulted, the fact that no prosecution ever took place exonerates the police officers because prosecutors outrank police officers on decisions to prosecute an individual.  I will add, you do not need the police to file criminal charges, you can go directly to the prosecutors office.

[Beechwoodfan]

6 minutes ago, theguru said:

Thanks for all of that @Beechwoodfan!

Like I mentioned above, there is not enough money to throw at this problem so money is not going to solve it.

I think you are being unfair to the police.  Let me explain.  When someone is “drunkacidal or drugacidal” as you stated, the proper thing for a third party to do is call the police.  Once the police encounter such persons they have a duty to act.  The police basically have three choices, talk them down/counsel them on the scene, take them to jail, or take them to the hospital.  The goal is always voluntary compliance so counseling them is the preferred option and it often works.  If the police have to act further they have two choices, jail or hospital.  For me, and for all the officers I worked with, taking someone to jail in a case like this is about 10 minutes of paperwork and a ride to and from the county jail.  Very simple, easy, and definitely our preferred course of action.  However, often times the jail will refuse to accept a “drunkacidal or drugacidal” subject from the police thus forcing us to take them to the hospital.  In other words, at least in my experience, no police officer wants to take someone to the hospital instead of the jail (jails should be equipped for this in my opinion).  When you take someone to the hospital you have to wait around for an hour or more, nurses and doctors second guess you (checks and balances are fine but it goes beyond this at times), and you have to do more paperwork including a form about restraining someone who is mentally ill (and ideally not supposed to be restrained) yet still a threat to the police officer.  I am telling you, no one I worked with wanted the hospital option.  Therefore, police officers become a pawn in this system and you get it from all directions and it isn't fair to the police.  Society says solve the problem, the jail sometimes says it is not our problem, and sometimes the hospital says it isn't our problem either but it is a problem to be solved and again the police are just a pawn in this game.  With all that said, if a police officer ever tells you she/he is bringing someone to the hospital so they don't have to arrest them they have been trained improperly and/or they should have chosen a career path in social work or mental health.  To be clear, if a police officer tells you he/she is bringing someone to the hospital so they don't have to arrest them the police officer is part of the problem in that instance.

On being assaulted, the fact that no prosecution ever took place exonerates the police officers because prosecutors outrank police officers on decisions to prosecute an individual.  I will add, you do not need the police to file criminal charges, you can go directly to the prosecutors office.

I totally get what you are saying, and I certainly didn’t mean to malign the police. I think most police officers are great and handle our mentally ill patients well.  I totally understand that their hands are tied once someone says they are suicidal and have no problem with that.  The officers who bring our patients in are in and out in 5 minutes.  They sign the psych hold and are gone. There is no waiting around.  I think our hospital has a very efficient way of doing intake from them.   We have our own security officers who help us with restraints.

We do, however, often get patients who are brought in after committing a crime. They may have assaulted someone, broken into a home, created some disturbance, destroyed property, set fires, or get caught driving under the influence.  It frustrates me that this happens on daily basis and, more often than not, no charges are ever filed because they are “mentally ill.”  I am not solely blaming the police because they know how it will play out.  Why bother when they know that prosecution will likely never happen?   Often, their victims don’t want to press charges either.
 

In all fairness, we do occasionally get drunks, who never claim to be mentally ill, brought in by the police.  They sign the psych holds saying that they are unable to care for themselves.   I once had an officer bring a man in who just got off the Greyhound and told the officer he was homeless. The officer thought we would find him a place to live.  Admittedly, these kind of incidents are a small percentage of cases, but they do occur.  
 

As far as my personal assault.  The officer adamantly refused to press charges. The head of my department got involved trying to get him to arrest this guy, but he refused.  I did have to drive to the police department, with a black eye to press charges.  The detective on my case was really nice, but pretty much told me how it would play out and he was right.   It is a federal offense to assault a health care worker, but good luck getting anyone to prosecute. I had a coworker who managed to successfully get someone to trial for assault, only to be told by a judge that getting assaulted is an unfortunate part of his job.  That’s why I said there is a problem with the judicial system overall.  I am certainly not saying that mentally I’ll people should all be locked up, but mental illness should not give people a free pass to break the law repeatedly with no consequences.
 

 

[theguru]

@Beechwoodfan

I am going to respond to each paragraph in bold:

I totally get what you are saying, and I certainly didn’t mean to malign the police. I think most police officers are great and handle our mentally ill patients well.  I totally understand that their hands are tied once someone says they are suicidal and have no problem with that.  The officers who bring our patients in are in and out in 5 minutes.  They sign the psych hold and are gone. There is no waiting around.  I think our hospital has a very efficient way of doing intake from them.   We have our own security officers who help us with restraints.

Our process was much different.  There was no sign and hold, in and out in 5 minutes.  That process (while I mostly like it) is ripe for abuse.  When we brought someone in we had to wait in line in a room in the ER for the Doctor to get around to us.  We had to be on guard the whole time, convince the triage nurse and convince the doctor again all while being on guard the entire time with little or no help from the hospital.  And restraints were not permitted until a doctor said so and it was not always timely.

We do, however, often get patients who are brought in after committing a crime. They may have assaulted someone, broken into a home, created some disturbance, destroyed property, set fires, or get caught driving under the influence.  It frustrates me that this happens on daily basis and, more often than not, no charges are ever filed because they are “mentally ill.”  I am not solely blaming the police because they know how it will play out.  Why bother when they know that prosecution will likely never happen?   Often, their victims don’t want to press charges either.

Why officers are not charging in situations like this is beyond me and sounds improper.  Mentally ill or not, if you commit a crime you get charged in addition to the going to the hospital and if the court wants to throw it out so be it.  I don't understand this one.  Also, this may seem contradictory with your personal assault but I see a distinction between in public and in the psych unit and I believe the powers that be do too.

In all fairness, we do occasionally get drunks, who never claim to be mentally ill, brought in by the police.  They sign the psych holds saying that they are unable to care for themselves.   I once had an officer bring a man in who just got off the Greyhound and told the officer he was homeless. The officer thought we would find him a place to live.  Admittedly, these kind of incidents are a small percentage of cases, but they do occur.  

I don't understand this one either.  If they are not (or are not claiming to be) mentally ill the police have no business, right, or legal authority to bring them to the hospital.  I would immediately call a police supervisor in a case like this and object.  In the case of the homeless person getting off the bus, local churches often have resources for this kind of thing on a very limited basis.  One question here, does the hospital have a right to refuse an officer signing someone in on a psych hold if they are not mentally ill?  Like I mentioned, in my experience, in the past we not only did NOT have the ability to "sign someone in" we had to wait our "turn" and convince everyone there was satisfactory evidence for a psych hold.

As far as my personal assault.  The officer adamantly refused to press charges. The head of my department got involved trying to get him to arrest this guy, but he refused.  I did have to drive to the police department, with a black eye to press charges.  The detective on my case was really nice, but pretty much told me how it would play out and he was right.   It is a federal offense to assault a health care worker, but good luck getting anyone to prosecute. I had a coworker who managed to successfully get someone to trial for assault, only to be told by a judge that getting assaulted is an unfortunate part of his job.  That’s why I said there is a problem with the judicial system overall.  I am certainly not saying that mentally I’ll people should all be locked up, but mental illness should not give people a free pass to break the law repeatedly with no consequences.

Speaking to your case, I would have taken a report, documented your injuries, and referred you to the prosecutors office for further action.  It seems like it should have been pretty simple.  Also, you don't have a law when you don't enforce it and we agree there is a problem with the overall judicial system but police officers (remember the pawns in all of this) can't do anything about it.  We are supposed to know our role and shut our mouth.

[TheDeuce]

49 minutes ago, Beechwoodfan said:

As far as my personal assault.  The officer adamantly refused to press charges. The head of my department got involved trying to get him to arrest this guy, but he refused.  I did have to drive to the police department, with a black eye to press charges.  The detective on my case was really nice, but pretty much told me how it would play out and he was right.   It is a federal offense to assault a health care worker, but good luck getting anyone to prosecute. I had a coworker who managed to successfully get someone to trial for assault, only to be told by a judge that getting assaulted is an unfortunate part of his job.  That’s why I said there is a problem with the judicial system overall.  I am certainly not saying that mentally I’ll people should all be locked up, but mental illness should not give people a free pass to break the law repeatedly with no consequences.

This is an absolute joke. I'm sorry the system failed you like this.

[Beechwoodfan]

Guru, we do not have the power to stop an officer from signing a hold.  I have however, I have on occasion asked an officer not to sign a hold, usually when I know the patient is a “frequent flyer” and is just looking for a bed for the night. Sometimes they are ok with that.  The law says that once a patient is on our property, and wants to be seen, we have to do it.  It’s a good law, but also allows all kinds of abuses of the system. 
 

I feel bad for your experiences. I am pretty sure I work in a different state than you did, so the laws are different.  I like the way we handle things way more.
 

Overall, I really love and respect the officers we come into contact with. I only see a small bit of what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

[Beechwoodfan]

1 minute ago, Beechwoodfan said:

Guru, we do not have the power to stop an officer from signing a hold.  I have however, I have on occasion asked an officer not to sign a hold, usually when I know the patient is a “frequent flyer” and is just looking for a bed for the night. Sometimes they are ok with that.  The law says that once a patient is on our property, and wants to be seen, we have to do it.  It’s a good law, but also allows all kinds of abuses of the system. 

I find your experiences unfortunate.  I work in a different state than you did, so I am guessing the law is different.  I like my state better.  Seems more efficient and logical.

Overall, I really love and respect the officers we come into contact with. I only see a small bit of what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

 

[theguru]

19 minutes ago, Beechwoodfan said:

Guru, we do not have the power to stop an officer from signing a hold.  I have however, I have on occasion asked an officer not to sign a hold, usually when I know the patient is a “frequent flyer” and is just looking for a bed for the night. Sometimes they are ok with that.  The law says that once a patient is on our property, and wants to be seen, we have to do it.  It’s a good law, but also allows all kinds of abuses of the system. 
 

Overall, I really love and respect the officers we come into contact with. I only see a small bit of what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

Things have changed, dramatically.  They went from the police having to make their case, to the hospital not being able to say no, wow!!

[mcpapa]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:53 AM, TheDeuce said:

Social media has run its course, IMO. Bottom line, a large number of people who use social media are not smart enough or responsible enough to be on there. It is doing more harm than good at this point. 

Paranoia stems from people thinking they are important enough that someone would want to spy on them or keep tabs on them, and from a lack of education. They are concerned with being tracked, while walking around with a portable GPS device in their pockets. They are worried about "The Man" keeping tabs on them, while they apply for credit using their social security numbers. 

Again, not smart enough to figure it out. 

There is definitely blame to be put on SOME parents. They want to be buddy buddy instead of Mom and Dad. Afraid to discipline their kids for fear of repercussions. People don't want to take the belt to Little Johnny, but then will send out "Thoughts and Prayers" when LIttle Johnny shoots up his school. 

There are a lot of things to be addressed, and many different conversations that could be had that would all be relevant. As I said in the other thread, one of the first steps to solving any public mental health/illness crisis is to stop using that as a crutch for behavior that isn't caused by it. Social media isn't isolated to the US. 24 hour news isn't isolated to the US. COVID isn't isolated to the US. Violent video games aren't isolated to the US. Hate, bigotry and discrimination aren't isolated to the US. But the US is the only developed country that has the problem with gun violence that we do. That's not a coincidence. 

 

Thoughts and prayers. 

I’m no Biblical scholar, but there’s a passage that says something along the lines of “Faith without works is dead”.

[Beechwoodfan]

I do think that bullying has gotten out of control, and plays a part in some of these shootings.  I will never understand why bullying occurs, but it always has.  It is so much worse with social media because kids aren’t safe from it in their own homes.  There is no getting away from it.

[theguru]

16 hours ago, Beechwoodfan said:

I do think that bullying has gotten out of control, and plays a part in some of these shootings.  I will never understand why bullying occurs, but it always has.  It is so much worse with social media because kids aren’t safe from it in their own homes.  There is no getting away from it.

I think we are moving towards some form of survival of the fittest.  Couple that with the oncoming automation of many tasks humans currently do and dystopia is right around the corner. 

[TheDeuce]

6 minutes ago, theguru said:

I think we are moving towards some form of survival of the fittest.  Couple that with the oncoming automation of many tasks humans currently do and dystopia is right around the corner. 

Is that not what it is already?

[theguru]

4 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

Is that not what it is already?

On some level(s) always.  I think a lot of people (like half or more) are going to get left behind in the near future with no chance of catching up.  I am sure many people already see it that way but it is going to get much worse in my opinion.