2 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Interesting point made during the meeting: over 80% of the appeals of the KHSAA's ruling on transfer eligibility end up overturning the KHSAA's ruling.

I wonder how much of that is truly for merit, or how much because they get a favorable ruling from the hometown court and they don't press it further.

18 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Tackett didn't offer any more particulars on timeline for final voting, but he did say, "This is not something we're going to spring on [the schools] in September and say, 'By the way, we're voting in two weeks.' "

A refreshing change of pace.  Too often we hear about something major only when it hits the agenda, and then boom - it's a done deal that day.

5 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Interesting point made during the meeting: over 80% of the appeals of the KHSAA's ruling on transfer eligibility end up overturning the KHSAA's ruling.

 

2 minutes ago, DragonFire said:

I wonder how much of that is truly for merit, or how much because they get a favorable ruling from the hometown court and they don't press it further.

No matter the reason it tells us the current system is not working and something needs to change. 

3 minutes ago, DragonFire said:

I wonder how much of that is truly for merit, or how much because they get a favorable ruling from the hometown court and they don't press it further.

They talked about that a little actually. They said one of the bigger issues is that when the initial paperwork is filed, the transfer eligibility packet is filled out with a bare minimum of information. Oftentimes, it seems as if people think, "I'm going to try to give them as little info as I can so they have less ability to find exception with my transfer." Then the opposite happens, and the KHSAA denies eligibility on the basis that they didn't end up with enough information to prove the legitimacy of the exception.

Two of the BOC members commented with something along the line of, "It's unbelievable how many times we've been at one of these appeals hearings, and the family says, 'Well...this or that happened,' and we just look at each other and shake our heads in disbelief because it's the first time that information has ever been brought forward, and we would have approved their transfer eligibility from the get-go had we been given that information with the initial paperwork."

1 minute ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

They talked about that a little actually. They said one of the bigger issues is that when the initial paperwork is filed, the transfer eligibility packet is filled out with a bare minimum of information. Oftentimes, it seems as if people think, "I'm going to try to give them as little info as I can so they have less ability to find exception with my transfer." Then the opposite happens, and the KHSAA denies eligibility on the basis that they didn't end up with enough information to prove the legitimacy of the exception.

Two of the BOC members commented with something along the line of, "It's unbelievable how many times we've been at one of these appeals hearings, and the family says, 'Well...this or that happened,' and we just look at each other and shake our heads in disbelief because it's the first time that information has ever been brought forward, and we would have approved their transfer eligibility from the get-go had we been given that information with the initial paperwork."

Essentially the KHSAA is almost in a "no win" situation because of new information, first time information, made up information they can't disprove, sensitive information, conflicting information, disinformation, misinformation, information information, and so on. 

On 3/24/2022 at 4:06 PM, theguru said:

Essentially the KHSAA is almost in a "no win" situation because of new information, first time information, made up information they can't disprove, sensitive information, conflicting information, disinformation, misinformation, information information, and so on. 

Any rule that cannot be enforced weakens an entire organization. What you have here is exactly right... Bylaw 16 cannot be enforced and we need to get rid of it.

Julian loves telling this story... the meeting that the KHSAA voted to reinstate spring football practice, one of the best coaches in the state voted AGAINST it. Shocked, Julian asked, "Why did you do that?" The coach responded, "Now, everyone is going to do it!"  :)

You know who wants to KEEP Bylaw 16?  The coaches that message/contact families and student-athletes, currently. They don't want everyone else to get the green light to do what they are doing... no matter how much they try to justify it. 

Coaches messaging parents & student-athletes does NOT have to be illegal.  Why not let the coaches that follow the rules be allowed to do so?  

I don't like the way things are now. I don't like taking this position. But, this where we are in 2022. 

And, if the rule never changes, and I am fortunate enough to get a HFC job in the future, I am not going to break it. Coaches have too much influence over kids to break the rules. If the coach does it, he sends a message to all his players that it is ok to do so. This is still HS athletics. It is not a business... yet. 

 

My other thought on this.... have that split.....

S Division  = "Sport."  We don't recruit kids. We still want to win, but we don't use kids to win. S Division has Bylaw 16. 

B Division  = "Business." We will recruit and do whatever it takes to win. B Division has no Bylaw 16. No rules. Why kid ourselves?  Turn everyone loose that wants to get kids by any means necessary. 

Some parents will pick B. Let them! Give them what they want. But,  let there be an option to let HS athletics remain a sport. 

For the S Division, you must have strong school administrators that would hold each school accountable, even to the point of walking through the door of another HS. You can still have transfers, but coaches don't message/contact kids & families. 

 

Again..... I really don't like any of this. But, that's where we are. 

 

4 hours ago, ChiefSmoke said:

Any rule that cannot be enforced weakens an entire organization. What you have here is exactly right... Bylaw 16 cannot be enforced and we need to get rid of it.

Julian loves telling this story... the meeting that the KHSAA voted to reinstate spring football practice, one of the best coaches in the state voted AGAINST it. Shocked, Julian asked, "Why did you do that?" The coach responded, "Now, everyone is going to do it!"  ?

You know who wants to KEEP Bylaw 16?  The coaches that message/contact families and student-athletes, currently. They don't want everyone else to get the green light to do what they are doing... no matter how much they try to justify it. 

Coaches messaging parents & student-athletes does NOT have to be illegal.  Why not let the coaches that follow the rules be allowed to do so?  

I don't like the way things are now. I don't like taking this position. But, this where we are in 2022. 

And, if the rule never changes, and I am fortunate enough to get a HFC job in the future, I am not going to break it. Coaches have too much influence over kids to break the rules. If the coach does it, he sends a message to all his players that it is ok to do so. This is still HS athletics. It is not a business... yet. 

 

My other thought on this.... have that split.....

S Division  = "Sport."  We don't recruit kids. We still want to win, but we don't use kids to win. S Division has Bylaw 16. 

B Division  = "Business." We will recruit and do whatever it takes to win. B Division has no Bylaw 16. No rules. Why kid ourselves?  Turn everyone loose that wants to get kids by any means necessary. 

Some parents will pick B. Let them! Give them what they want. But,  let there be an option to let HS athletics remain a sport. 

For the S Division, you must have strong school administrators that would hold each school accountable, even to the point of walking through the door of another HS. You can still have transfers, but coaches don't message/contact kids & families. 

 

Again..... I really don't like any of this. But, that's where we are. 

 

Nice idea

So 2 classes instead of 6 or are we going to change that as well?

5 minutes ago, Falcon Pride said:

Nice idea

So 2 classes instead of 6 or are we going to change that as well?

Honestly.... no idea.... two divisions of 3 classes??   I just believe the path we are on now is unsustainable. Who knows...but, it's not gonna happen. Just venting. Lol 

 

At a minimum.... get rid of bylaw 16. I love the spirit of the rule, but it is unenforceable. 

16 hours ago, ChiefSmoke said:

Any rule that cannot be enforced weakens an entire organization. What you have here is exactly right... Bylaw 16 cannot be enforced and we need to get rid of it.

Julian loves telling this story... the meeting that the KHSAA voted to reinstate spring football practice, one of the best coaches in the state voted AGAINST it. Shocked, Julian asked, "Why did you do that?" The coach responded, "Now, everyone is going to do it!"  ?

You know who wants to KEEP Bylaw 16?  The coaches that message/contact families and student-athletes, currently. They don't want everyone else to get the green light to do what they are doing... no matter how much they try to justify it. 

Coaches messaging parents & student-athletes does NOT have to be illegal.  Why not let the coaches that follow the rules be allowed to do so?  

I don't like the way things are now. I don't like taking this position. But, this where we are in 2022. 

And, if the rule never changes, and I am fortunate enough to get a HFC job in the future, I am not going to break it. Coaches have too much influence over kids to break the rules. If the coach does it, he sends a message to all his players that it is ok to do so. This is still HS athletics. It is not a business... yet. 

 

My other thought on this.... have that split.....

S Division  = "Sport."  We don't recruit kids. We still want to win, but we don't use kids to win. S Division has Bylaw 16. 

B Division  = "Business." We will recruit and do whatever it takes to win. B Division has no Bylaw 16. No rules. Why kid ourselves?  Turn everyone loose that wants to get kids by any means necessary. 

Some parents will pick B. Let them! Give them what they want. But,  let there be an option to let HS athletics remain a sport. 

For the S Division, you must have strong school administrators that would hold each school accountable, even to the point of walking through the door of another HS. You can still have transfers, but coaches don't message/contact kids & families. 

 

Again..... I really don't like any of this. But, that's where we are. 

 

Amen Chief!! Only problem....your plan makes too much sense.

20 hours ago, ChiefSmoke said:

Any rule that cannot be enforced weakens an entire organization. What you have here is exactly right... Bylaw 16 cannot be enforced and we need to get rid of it.

16 hours ago, ChiefSmoke said:

At a minimum.... get rid of bylaw 16. I love the spirit of the rule, but it is unenforceable. 

 

I must admit, love it or hate it, I can agree with this logic.

On 3/24/2022 at 4:06 PM, theguru said:

Essentially the KHSAA is almost in a "no win" situation because of new information, first time information, made up information they can't disprove, sensitive information, conflicting information, disinformation, misinformation, information information, and so on. 

Spot on....

4. No recruiting comments or allegations of KHSAA rules violations by any school, coach, player or booster are allowed. No comments about where any player lives, has lived, or where they are from in a recruiting context. This is not the place to report KHSAA violations. Feel free to contact Kentucky High School Athletic Association | KHSAA – Student-athletes of Today, Leaders of Tomorrow to report such violations, but do not discuss violations here.

On 3/24/2022 at 3:06 PM, theguru said:

Essentially the KHSAA is almost in a "no win" situation because of new information, first time information, made up information they can't disprove, sensitive information, conflicting information, disinformation, misinformation, information information, and so on. 

Correct.  And when you hear that 3/4 of the time the decision is overturned something has to change with the system. And to no fault of the KHSAA because they can only judge on the information presented to them at the  time.

2 hours ago, gridiron guy said:

Correct.  And when you hear that 3/4 of the time the decision is overturned something has to change with the system. And to no fault of the KHSAA because they can only judge on the information presented to them at the  time.

Can you imagine the amount of time and money saved if you get rid of bylaw 16? 

On 4/11/2022 at 3:54 PM, ChiefSmoke said:

Can you imagine the amount of time and money saved if you get rid of bylaw 16? 

So what is your solution to this problem? Considering KHSAA is self funded, which is against the norm in the United States, and they have limited resources with an issue that is increasingly spreading resources thin and with open enrollment now in Kentucky.