The other thing I'd say - and this is a genuine question - is, how many places would this really be a big factor?  If you live in Louisville, say, where there are close to 40 high schools and many of them are close together.....you can simply transfer schools without moving.  But I assume in less populated areas, that would be more difficult, and that a lot of times a player couldn't realistically transfer to School A from School B unless his family moved residences.  Is that true - or no?  If it's true, I can't believe that many kids would/could do it.....

When I saw this topic I had to read it from start to finish.  All the excellent comments show, it's a hot topic that will have lots of interest.  

This topic, in a general sense, is what led me to this forum many years ago.  I will say that we have come a long way from when a superintendent in Southern Kentucky wanted kids to pick their school of choice as 7th graders and if they changed they would forfeit two years of sports if they did make a change.  

Some thoughts. 

1. Let's start with the KHSAA point of view first. They have to expend resources for each "transfer" and make a ruling.  Without know the metrics, I would guess 90+% are given the exemption.  When they do rule that a student will be ineligible a firestorm likely ignites and even more resources are needed to get through that.  The easier route is this one no-fault transfer.  Less paperwork for the 90% and less angst on the challenges.  For an organization that is looking how to best utilize a limited staff this action makes all sorts of sense. 

2. Somewhat related - the new workplace normal.  Parents are working from home more and more.  Some may "go back to the office" but working from home is now part of the landscape and families will be more mobile than before 2020.  So the amount of movement by families and students will be higher than in the past.  Thus, nartural, valid "transfers" will also increase and this adds workload to KHSAA per above. 

My first cut is that is an appropriate step.  Notice that I did not say good or bad step.  But given the factors above and the current gamesmanship that goes on when families are "transferring" solely for sports this action would make sense. 

The current rules do not really inhibit motivated families from "transferring".  There is always inertia that provides a lot of resistance to making a change.  Its not an easy or light decision (or should not be).  So when a family makes the jump they are going to do it.   

There are risks, issues, pitfalls and concerns for families, for schools, for school districts, for ADs, etc. These are all valid.  But that is another post. 

 

Over the past 30 years, we've(Paris, Mason, Mercer) had transfers and we have benefitted from those kids coming through our door.  

The biggest issue is not transfers..... it is the violation of bylaw 16 and the difficulty of monitoring/enforcement. 

Maybe we get rid of bylaw 16. I would hate to do that. But, the current setup is not fair to those that do follow the rules. 

I hear stuff coming out of coaches' mouths I never thought I would hear.

Do we really want an environment that teaches kids you have to cheat to be successful?

If it's not a rule, it's not cheating to recruit. Maybe transparency and honesty is the route to go. 

Or, the most radical idea, and the one I like the most, the schools with the strongest leaders, that will fire their coaches that recruit, start their own athletic association. Let those that want to recruit have an arms race and go get it. And, some parents will prefer that setup. Let them have what they want.

But, offer an alternative where recruiting is not allowed. Kids could still transfer, but school leaders would hold each other accountable and fire/remove the adults that cheat. 

Competitive advantage is certainly an issue. I get that. Exploitation of HS kids and their families is also an issue... and needs to be part of the equation.

Everyone needs to understand... when HS's start recruiting kids to their school and it is accepted, legally or illegally.... they are just like college and recruiting someone that can take your position or your child's position. I really don't think that is the best environment for HS kids. 

 

3 hours ago, ChiefSmoke said:

Over the past 30 years, we've(Paris, Mason, Mercer) had transfers and we have benefitted from those kids coming through our door.  

The biggest issue is not transfers..... it is the violation of bylaw 16 and the difficulty of monitoring/enforcement. 

Maybe we get rid of bylaw 16. I would hate to do that. But, the current setup is not fair to those that do follow the rules. 

I hear stuff coming out of coaches' mouths I never thought I would hear.

Do we really want an environment that teaches kids you have to cheat to be successful?

If it's not a rule, it's not cheating to recruit. Maybe transparency and honesty is the route to go. 

Or, the most radical idea, and the one I like the most, the schools with the strongest leaders, that will fire their coaches that recruit, start their own athletic association. Let those that want to recruit have an arms race and go get it. And, some parents will prefer that setup. Let them have what they want.

But, offer an alternative where recruiting is not allowed. Kids could still transfer, but school leaders would hold each other accountable and fire/remove the adults that cheat. 

Competitive advantage is certainly an issue. I get that. Exploitation of HS kids and their families is also an issue... and needs to be part of the equation.

Everyone needs to understand... when HS's start recruiting kids to their school and it is accepted, legally or illegally.... they are just like college and recruiting someone that can take your position or your child's position. I really don't think that is the best environment for HS kids. 

 

If you do not recruit at a private school the doors will close. Recruitment is part of the business for them. 

10 minutes ago, laketime85 said:

If you do not recruit at a private school the doors will close. Recruitment is part of the business for them. 

The kind of recruitment that has most logical people concerned isn't the one that keeps private school doors open. 

This is a great thread but we need to take a step back from any talk about recruiting:

4. No recruiting comments or allegations of KHSAA rules violations by any school, coach, player or booster are allowed. No comments about where any player lives, has lived, or where they are from in a recruiting context. This is not the place to report KHSAA violations. Feel free to contact Kentucky High School Athletic Association | KHSAA – Student-athletes of Today, Leaders of Tomorrow to report such violations, but do not discuss violations here.

When I resigned, this tweet from a GREAT QB & young man meant the world to me. It also tells me, as HS ? coaches, we must follow the rules & do what is right. “Everyone else is doing it” is absolutely not an acceptable response. 

On 2/16/2022 at 4:35 PM, WestDanville said:

So about the choice when they enrolled originally. What if the law stated you got one job choice out of high school and had to keep it forever regardless of future opportunities? You would say that’s absurd. If I have a better opportunity then I should be able to take it. Why should academics and sports be any different? 

Academics shouldn't be different.  If a family want their kid to transfer for academic purposes, they should - and already can, to some degree.

Sports, however, are different.  Are sports a right or a privilege?  If they are a right, then there should be no strings attached (grades, drug testing, etc.). If they are a privilege (as they are treated under current rules), then I see no problem with having to sit a year if you transfer.  If the reasons for the move are not athletic in nature, then what is the problem with waiting?

I’m willing to assume, but don’t kill the messenger lol. A lot of the people against this transfer rule were also FOR the “super senior” reclassification rule and bringing back a 5th yr senior. Just a thought and I could be wrong, if so sorry. 

10. No gambling, bookmaking or point spread comments are allowed in any of the high school forums. Figures of speech that use gambling terms may not be used in any of the high school forums (i.e. bet, over/under, spread, parlay, chips, line, odds). All gambling comments are permitted in the non-high school forums as long as they do not involve any high school sports, students, or student-athletes.

Well regardless of how you feel about this issue. It is what it is. You can either complain about the current state of affairs and changing of rules or you can adapt to the current environment and be successful. Students can currently transfer before high school anytime they want to and coaches actively seek kids out at the grade level right now. Just go to Louisville or Lexington on Saturday at any youth league game. Transfers have went up significantly the past year or so. People move all the time solely to go to a school that they feel will better their student and gives them a better chance to be successful. I am all for it. It’s currently happening as we type all these things. Why make it harder for families.

I have been reading the posts and a lot of good points. I doubt there is one person who believes the current transfer system is good the way it is. It is clouded in secrecy, many times for very valid reasons. But that secrecy creates doubt of legitimacy. The best point I saw in the thread is that anyone who wants to transfer can make it happen as long as they pay attention to the rules. So why not make a free transfer available to everyone? No more stories, no more need to make families move, no more rumors and secrecy. Yes, a lot of times these are bad decisions by kids and their families. A lot of times they are good decisions. But I know this. Those four years of high school are a special time and they go by so fast. Far too fast to take away one moment of that time and opportunity for these kids. It is about the kids and their moment. Let these kids and their families do what they want to do and live with their decisions - whether good or bad. 

53 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I have been reading the posts and a lot of good points. I doubt there is one person who believes the current transfer system is good the way it is. It is clouded in secrecy, many times for very valid reasons. But that secrecy creates doubt of legitimacy. The best point I saw in the thread is that anyone who wants to transfer can make it happen as long as they pay attention to the rules. So why not make a free transfer available to everyone? No more stories, no more need to make families move, no more rumors and secrecy. Yes, a lot of times these are bad decisions by kids and their families. A lot of times they are good decisions. But I know this. Those four years of high school are a special time and they go by so fast. Far too fast to take away one moment of that time and opportunity for these kids. It is about the kids and their moment. Let these kids and their families do what they want to do and live with their decisions - whether good or bad. 

Agree. I would add, get rid of Bylaw 16. Misunderstood and ignored even more. Extremely difficult to enforce. Every rule you have that is not enforced, weakens an organization.  Be done with it.  

1 hour ago, ChiefSmoke said:

Agree. I would add, get rid of Bylaw 16. Misunderstood and ignored even more. Extremely difficult to enforce. Every rule you have that is not enforced, weakens an organization.  Be done with it.  

I am with you. Has anyone ever been proven to violate Bylaw 16? Just get rid of it.

7 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I am with you. Has anyone ever been proven to violate Bylaw 16? Just get rid of it.

Rarely. I would love the transparency. The best part… kids in a football program know their coach is going after kids that play their position.  
 

As far as going after kids younger than HS….now there would be legitimate, legal competition for the best players. 
 

Not crazy about all of this, but definitely a time for major adjustments. 
 

In a lot of ways, eliminating bylaw 16 would expose who’s in it for kids and who’s in it for themselves. 
 

I guess things could be worse than they are now but absolutely worth a shot!