Who gets in out of these up coming HoF Candidates?

[SvFan4life]

Any hitter that played in the "steroid era"...

 

Jeter, Biggio, Ripken Jr.,

[CincySportsFan]

He is ONE of the best fielding SS, yes. What hurt Viz are his numbers are more a product of longevity than of actual production, only two seasons with a over a 100 OPS and a career .267 stick. He may make it, but I don't think he is a shoe in.

 

.272 vs. .262 BA

.688 vs. .666 OPS

.985 vs. .978 Fielding %

 

Vizquel has the better numbers in all three categories, compared to Ozzie Smith. If Oz is in...so should Viz...no brainer.

[AverageJoesGym]

Explain to me how there's a case that Griffey used?

 

How about this. He played on Mariner teams with Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, and Todd Williams—all admitted steroid users. Former teammates such as Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo were named in the Mitchell report. Throw in suspected users Bret Boone and Jay Buhner. That doesn't make him guilty but does show that steriods were readily available in the Seattle clubhouse.

 

He had power spikes just like other steroid users. He went from 3 straight seasons of homer totals in the 20s all the way to 45 homers in one season. He went from a season in which he hit .258 with 7 doubles and 17 homers in 72 games to a season in which he hit .303 with 26 doubles and 49 homers coming off of a broken wrist--an injury that usually decreases power for awhile.

 

His body broke down quickly in his early 30's. While some might suggest that proves he didn't take steroids that isn't necessarily the case. HGH seems to be the magic bullet that helped lots of sluggers prevent their bodies from breaking down. Meanwhile proven users or suspected users like Caminiti, McGwire, Garciaparra, Juan Gonzalez, Sosa and Richie Sexson seemed to break down quickly in their early to mid 30's.

 

I'm not saying Griffey did use steroids. I honestly hope he didn't, he was my favorite non-Red Sox player in my 20's and 30's. He did play in the steroid era however, and therefore shouldn't get a free pass just because of his likeabliity. Is there any legal evidence that he did take steroids? Not that we know of but there is also no clean tests that we can produce that proves he didn't. If I had to vote, I'd say he didn't. But I just couldn't be sure.

[UKMustangFan]

^His power spike occurred when he was 23-24 years old. It was only an 18 HR increase. I thought you said earlier this thread that's not unusual for someone in that age range?

 

The year he broke his wrist he was on pace to hit 36 HRs. The next season he hit 49. Hardly an increase that leads to questions about steroid use for a 26 year old superstar in the prime of his career.

 

From his age 23-37 seasons his AB:HR ratio stayed in the vicinity of roughly 10.5 - 17 ABs per HR. That's fairly consistent. The only times there were any spikes were in injury shortened seasons.

[AverageJoesGym]

^His power spike occurred when he was 23-24 years old. It was only an 18 HR increase. I thought you said earlier this thread that's not unusual for someone in that age range?

 

The year he broke his wrist he was on pace to hit 36 HRs. The next season he hit 49. Hardly an increase that leads to questions about steroid use for a 26 year old superstar in the prime of his career.

 

From his age 23-37 seasons his AB:HR ratio stayed in the vicinity of roughly 10.5 - 17 ABs per HR. That's fairly consistent. The only times there were any spikes were in injury shortened seasons.

 

That was a 14 homer jump and it occurred between his 26 year old and 27 year old seasons. This was an 18 homer jump at age 23-24. It is a bigger jump and at a younger age. He also displayed a lot of the soft tissue injuries consistent with steroid use. Again, I'm not saying he did use but a case could certainly be made--why should he get a pass when no one else does?

[UKMustangFan]

That was a 14 homer jump and it occurred between his 26 year old and 27 year old seasons. This was an 18 homer jump at age 23-24. It is a bigger jump and at a younger age. He also displayed a lot of the soft tissue injuries consistent with steroid use. Again, I'm not saying he did use but a case could certainly be made--why should he get a pass when no one else does?

 

Lots of players do.

 

Why haven't you ever talked about Ortiz and his obvious jump in production right in the middle of the steroid era?

 

Fact is, if Griffey never played for the Reds you would never say anything about him and steroids. You simply do it because you love to try and get a rise out of Reds fans every chance you get.

[AverageJoesGym]

Lots of players do.

 

Why haven't you ever talked about Ortiz and his obvious jump in production right in the middle of the steroid era?

 

Fact is, if Griffey never played for the Reds you would never say anything about him and steroids. You simply do it because you love to try and get a rise out of Reds fans every chance you get.

 

I thought you were a Red Sox fan? Why are you getting so upset?

 

I didn't mention Ortiz because he's still playing and wasn't in the list of future Hall of Fame candidates. I also didn't mention Pedroia, Jeter, Ichiro, Votto or any other current players. The topic was future hall of fame classes wasn't it? I like Griffey, I've said several times he was my favorite non-Red Sox player of his era. My point is that due to the taint of the whole steroid era a case can be made that anyone used that played in that era, get it?

[Clyde]

These are the biggest names coming up for eligibility over the next few seasons

2016

Jim Edmonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Trevor Hoffman, Billy Wagner, Troy Glaus, Mike Hampton, Jason Kendall, Mike Sweeney

2017

Vladimir Guerrero, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Jorge Posada

2018

Chipper Jones, Jim Thome, Bobby Abreu, Johnny Damon, Andruw Jones, Scott Rolen, Johan Santana, Omar Vizquel

 

Who's a lock, first ballot HoFer?

Any of these never getting in?

 

The players I would vote for:

 

Griffey, Edmonds, Manny, IRod, Chipper, Thome, Andruw Jones, and Vlad.

 

I'd think long and hard about Omar.

[CincySportsFan]

The players I would vote for:

 

Griffey, Edmonds, Manny, IRod, Chipper, Thome, Andruw Jones, and Vlad.

 

I'd think long and hard about Omar.

 

Do you think Ozzie Smith should be in? If not, then I'm cool with your decision. If you do...then why not Omar?

 

Neither one is getting in because of his offense. But, as great as Ozzie may have been, I give the nod to Omar defensively, simply because the guy played basically two decades at shortstop, with his homefield being natural grass. Many more chances for balls to take bad/odd hops there, than on the artificial turf that Smith played on.

[Jumper_Dad]

That was a 14 homer jump and it occurred between his 26 year old and 27 year old seasons. This was an 18 homer jump at age 23-24. It is a bigger jump and at a younger age. He also displayed a lot of the soft tissue injuries consistent with steroid use. Again, I'm not saying he did use but a case could certainly be made--why should he get a pass when no one else does?

 

Not quite correct

 

22 YO 27 HRs (4th year as a pro)

23 YO 45 HRs (5th year as a pro)

24 YO 40 HRs (Played in 111 games)

25 YO 17 HRs (Played in 72 games)

26 YO 49 HRs

27 YO 56 HRs

 

Ken Griffey Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

 

As far as getting a pass, was he in the Mitchell report? Has any former teammate named him in PED allegations? Has there been a tell all book alleging that he did? Ken Griffey Jr by ALL ACCOUNTS did it the right way. Home run totals look like the growth as a player and nothing outlandish, comparable to the HR growth of Hank Aaron and Mickey Mantle at comparable ages and experience.

[AverageJoesGym]

Not quite correct

 

22 YO 27 HRs (4th year as a pro)

23 YO 45 HRs (5th year as a pro)

24 YO 40 HRs (Played in 111 games)

25 YO 17 HRs (Played in 72 games)

26 YO 49 HRs

27 YO 56 HRs

 

Ken Griffey Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

 

As far as getting a pass, was he in the Mitchell report? Has any former teammate named him in PED allegations? Has there been a tell all book alleging that he did? Ken Griffey Jr by ALL ACCOUNTS did it the right way. Home run totals look like the growth as a player and nothing outlandish, comparable to the HR growth of Hank Aaron and Mickey Mantle at comparable ages and experience.

 

It was still a larger jump at an earlier age than Pudge's increase. What about his history of soft tissue injuries--which is a characteristic of steroid use?

[Clyde]

Do you think Ozzie Smith should be in? If not, then I'm cool with your decision. If you do...then why not Omar?

 

Neither one is getting in because of his offense. But, as great as Ozzie may have been, I give the nod to Omar defensively, simply because the guy played basically two decades at shortstop, with his homefield being natural grass. Many more chances for balls to take bad/odd hops there, than on the artificial turf that Smith played on.

 

I would lean towards putting Omar in.

[Jumper_Dad]

It was still a larger jump at an earlier age than Pudge's increase. What about his history of soft tissue injuries--which is a characteristic of steroid use?

 

Pudge isn't an elite power hitter of his era either, except for a 3 year run he never broke 25 in a season, then once the Michell investigation started he struggled to break 10.

 

Jr's HR growth is right in line with Mantle and Aaron as I mentioned which is much more comparable than comparing him to IRod.

 

Soft tissue injuries, I guess your talking about hamstrings? One hamstring injury generally leads to many more, very few athletes have a one time hamstring injury once the first one occurs.

[AverageJoesGym]

Pudge isn't an elite power hitter of his era either, except for a 3 year run he never broke 25 in a season, then once the Michell investigation started he struggled to break 10.

 

Jr's HR growth is right in line with Mantle and Aaron as I mentioned which is much more comparable than comparing him to IRod.

 

Soft tissue injuries, I guess your talking about hamstrings? One hamstring injury generally leads to many more, very few athletes have a one time hamstring injury once the first one occurs.

 

 

The 4 hamstring tears, the torn ankle ligament, the torn patella tendon, the injured knee ligament...

[Jumper_Dad]

The 4 hamstring tears, the torn ankle ligament, the torn patella tendon, the injured knee ligament...

 

Well there you go, that proves it...Jr must have used steroids...

 

I know even you don't think he's did steroids you just won't admit that Pudge probably did them, for what ever reason.