halfback20 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Jr and Hoffman should be locks. Pudge and Chipper eventually.Chipper is a lock. Not eventually...right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDAWGS19 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 He is ONE of the best fielding SS, yes. What hurt Viz are his numbers are more a product of longevity than of actual production, only two seasons with a over a 100 OPS and a career .267 stick. He may make it, but I don't think he is a shoe in. Just as a comparison, here's Ozzie Smith's BA and OPS. I feel that Omar is the only one even close to OZ in fielding. Ozzie- .262 BA, .666 OPS (10,778 Plate Appearances) Omar- .272 BA, .688 OPS (12,013 Plate Appearances) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of Reason Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 LOCKS IMO Ken Griffey Jr., Trevor Hoffman, Vladimir Guerrero, Chipper Jones, Jim Thome, Never Getting In Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Get in but probably not first ballot Jim Edmonds, Andruw Jones, Scott Rolen, Jorge Posada, Billy Wagner I agree with your locks. ManRam - not getting in. I-Rod ... that one will be interesting but I think he will get in. With no direct claims of PED use, I can see him making it but it will take a few ballots. Without PED's, he is a borderline first ballot guy. Jim Edmonds has ZERO chance of getting in. He didn't even have 2,000 hits in his career. Less than 400 HR's. No chance. Andruw Jones is slightly better than Edmonds but no chance for him either. By the way, Jones won more Gold Gloves in his career than Edmonds - I bet a lot of people would be surprised to hear that. Scott Rolen - same as above. Really good career but not Hall of Fame worthy. Posada - Personally I don't think he is worthy. Never won a Gold Glove at a defensively valuable position. A good hitting catcher. But he is a Yankee so he will probably get in at some point in time. Wagner - Very difficult to get in as a reliever. Right now, I say no to Wagner. Lee Smith isn't in. John Franco isn't in. I don't see it happening for Wagner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcpapa Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Locks: Griffey, Hoffman, Vlad, Manny, Pudge, Chipper, Thome Don't see anyone else making it ever. Griffey, Thome, and Chipper are 1st ballot guys. Pretty much my thinking as well, but Pudge may eventually make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumper_Dad Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 Bonds and Clemens both had huge jumps in production or suddenly quit aging. That wasn't the case with I-Rod. He built up in productivity in his 20's and dropped in his 30's. Unless they want to release those guys that failed why should we condemn him? He played in a homerun favorable park and never had that huge jump that the rest of the users did. I know that no Reds fan wants to hear it but there is just as great a case that Junior used... Really? Pudge has been tied to PED's two to three different ways including someone saying they gave them to him and his almost tacit admission... has there been a report of any kind that anyone ever saw Jr use them or any suspected failed test. Did Jr I don't know and you don't but there has been almost zero speculation that he did it. Jr was the biggest name in baseball before the Bonds, Conseco, Sosa explosion, I think if he was using someone would have said something by now. While Pudge and other suspected juicers should be innocent until proven guilty, the court of popular opinion has already convicted several others without a failed test based on speculation alone. The fact that some (Bonds and Clemens) careers seemed to take a turn and that Pudges didn't doesn't prove or disprove anything...could just mean that Pudge's upside wasn't as high as others. Nolan Ryan quit aging for about 6 or 7 years, you think he was juicing too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKMustangFan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 . I know that no Reds fan wants to hear it but there is just as great a case that Junior used... No, there really isn't any case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDAWGS19 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 No, there really isn't any case... I call it the "eye test". Junior kept basically the same body weight and size his entire career. Most of the alleged and documented users didn't. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmerio... all got freakishly bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerkywrestler Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Based on recent voting trends Jr. should NOT be a lock. But he will because he somehow gets a pass from any misguided (or not) scrutiny. I'm pretty much done giving a crap about the baseball HOF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumper_Dad Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 Based on recent voting trends Jr. should NOT be a lock. But he will because he somehow gets a pass from any misguided (or not) scrutiny. ... What trends make you think he should NOT be a lock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvFan4life Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Based on recent voting trends Jr. should NOT be a lock. But he will because he somehow gets a pass from any misguided (or not) scrutiny. I'm pretty much done giving a crap about the baseball HOF... How is Jr. not a lock? This should be good to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvFan4life Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Bonds and Clemens both had huge jumps in production or suddenly quit aging. That wasn't the case with I-Rod. He built up in productivity in his 20's and dropped in his 30's. Unless they want to release those guys that failed why should we condemn him? He played in a homerun favorable park and never had that huge jump that the rest of the users did. I know that no Reds fan wants to hear it but there is just as great a case that Junior used... Explain to me how there's a case that Griffey used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvFan4life Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Jr and Hoffman should be locks. Pudge and Chipper eventually. Chipper is a lock no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerkywrestler Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 What trends make you think he should NOT be a lock? How is Jr. not a lock? This should be good to read. Any hitter that played in the "steroid era"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvFan4life Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Any hitter that played in the "steroid era"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKMustangFan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Any hitter that played in the "steroid era"... Feel the same way about Jeter I assume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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