Is Prop 20 the best choice?????

[ladiesbballcoach]

You should know better then to ask that question? They need to work harder and get better coaches. How dare you say it is unfair. They didnt "get any players" the players choose them. Just because they have the ability to get kids from where they want (other counties,states, or from other school districts) and the other schools dont, does not mean that is a edge. Did you read the post? It is because of the commitment to winning by the schools that want to win, that do. You know the other school's players dont work hard in the off season, and their coaches dont break down tape or know the x's and the o's of the game enough to win. So all of those good players are willing to pay 1000's to go to a school that does. that is totally fair and even. all those other schools are great big whinner's and Losers

Bolded is a little misleading. Public schools could choose to go that route also. My contention is that public schools are NOT designed to serve that purpose. Privates are, thus, the difference that is created.

 

Since public schools could choose that route, my question was, "are you proposing that we just make it an open market on kids?"

[leatherneck]

I understand your point and agree with it. But I do have a question, in regards to the girls basketball program at LexCath. Are you saying for the 11th region teams to compete, they should start looking to draw some of the better players from areas surrounding their school?

 

Or would you agree that a school that can bring in the star from 5-6 different communities to field one team has a big advantage?

 

 

I would respond that if their home schools had really strong basketball programs, no rational parents and kids would leave their home schools to drive an hour each way to go to LexCath, unless they were doing so for religious reasons. As much as some people hate to admit it, the people running the poor programs at the home schools have as much, maybe more, of the blame than LexCath. For the most part, all LexCath is doing is running a first class program that kids want to play for (and the only reason I said for the most part, is because of the recent infractions involving financial aid, which I believe are an aberration of LexCath's financial aid program. And please don't forget, I am a Highlands fan and they just eliminated us from the football playoffs a few months ago and my son plays for Highlands. My response to the loss was not that LexCath cheats, or they have unfair advantages; rather, we must get better if we want to beat them next year). If all the schools made the committment to athletics and academics that schools like LexCath have, you would not see the concentration of talented students in a few schools. Get better if you want your students to stay at home. Don't be mediocre or worse; compete or lose. Its life.

[rockmom]

Bolded is a little misleading. Public schools could choose to go that route also. My contention is that public schools are NOT designed to serve that purpose. Privates are, thus, the difference that is created.

 

Since public schools could choose that route, my question was, "are you proposing that we just make it an open market on kids?"

 

 

I know it's not possible in all areas, due to population, etc.

 

BUT....what is wrong with competition among schools for students? ANY students! The way I see it (and this is my opinion only), competition strengthens all who participate. Schools would be forced to "step up to the plate", and to offer attractive options for students. To me, it's the same premise as capitalism.

[Covercorner]

You must also remember, that Lex Cath used to be the whipping boy. The school that was a cellar dweller. When Haney was hired as AD, it was to take the school up to being competitive athletically. The commitment was made, and follwed through. If the kids leave an area with no commitment, they don't leave for an area with no commitment. The Lex Cath program had to have a foundation.

[leatherneck]

I know it's not possible in all areas, due to population, etc.

 

BUT....what is wrong with competition among schools for students? ANY students! The way I see it (and this is my opinion only), competition strengthens all who participate. Schools would be forced to "step up to the plate", and to offer attractive options for students. To me, it's the same premise as capitalism.

 

 

Amen sister, amen.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I know it's not possible in all areas, due to population, etc.

 

BUT....what is wrong with competition among schools for students? ANY students! The way I see it (and this is my opinion only), competition strengthens all who participate. Schools would be forced to "step up to the plate", and to offer attractive options for students. To me, it's the same premise as capitalism.

First, I am a supporter of voucher systems.

 

Great thought but let's think of this seriously.

 

The competition would ONLY be for a few groups of kids. There would be a HUGE pool of kids that the parents DON'T care where their kids are going to end up. So those kids are not going to be targeted in a push to "recruit" those kids.

 

So if you are the administrator of a school and know that if you don't keep dumping funds into the AP kids' program you will lose them, you will do that. At the possible cost to those other kids who you know you are not going to lose. I would fear that programs that are trying to help kids that are NOT on the right track would lose out in a funding race.

 

Presently, gifted and talented programs struggle for funding (I have a child in that program and a spouse that used to teach in the program) because the focus is on getting the other kids to the proficient level. That is what is mandated by the state to the public schools. ALL kids to the proficient level by 2011. Well, the gifted/talented kids are there. The others aren't.

[ladiesbballcoach]

You must also remember, that Lex Cath used to be the whipping boy. The school that was a cellar dweller. When Haney was hired as AD, it was to take the school up to being competitive athletically. The commitment was made, and follwed through. If the kids leave an area with no commitment, they don't leave for an area with no commitment. The Lex Cath program had to have a foundation.

Was that when they were not drawing the best athletes from just Fayette County and had to rely on THEIR feeder systems and the athletes IN their communities AS the RURAL counties HAVE to do now??

[rockmom]

First, I am a supporter of voucher systems.

 

Great thought but let's think of this seriously.

 

The competition would ONLY be for a few groups of kids. There would be a HUGE pool of kids that the parents DON'T care where their kids are going to end up. So those kids are not going to be targeted in a push to "recruit" those kids.

 

So if you are the administrator of a school and know that if you don't keep dumping funds into the AP kids' program you will lose them, you will do that. At the possible cost to those other kids who you know you are not going to lose. I would fear that programs that are trying to help kids that are NOT on the right track would lose out in a funding race.

 

Presently, gifted and talented programs struggle for funding (I have a child in that program and a spouse that used to teach in the program) because the focus is on getting the other kids to the proficient level. That is what is mandated by the state to the public schools. ALL kids to the proficient level by 2011. Well, the gifted/talented kids are there. The others aren't.

 

 

I understand what you're saying, but there are systems where, for the most part, the competetive approach is working. JCPS is one of those systems. Now, I hear the negatives from some schools. But AS A WHOLE, the system is working, and has been recognized nationally as one of the top public school systems in the country!

 

What incentive is there to improve anything at the school? What incentive is there if you KNOW you're going to have students regardless of the school's performance? I understand that the teachers care. But if the same attitude isn't prevelant all the way to the top, there's only so much the teachers can do!

 

Also, that's proficiency thing. I will NEVER understand why the emphasis on getting those students lagging in proficiency supercedes the challenging of those already outperforming.

 

That's one of the HUGEST advantages to the private schools I am familiar with...there are different levels of learning. A kid can be in a lower level math class, yet in an advanced class for English! The learning process is evaluated and the kids' progress is monitored.

 

Why does everything have to be the same for everyone? That's where the whole thing gets muddy for me.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I understand what you're saying, but there are systems where, for the most part, the competetive approach is working. JCPS is one of those systems. Now, I hear the negatives from some schools. But AS A WHOLE, the system is working, and has been recognized nationally as one of the top public school systems in the country!

 

What incentive is there to improve anything at the school? What incentive is there if you KNOW you're going to have students regardless of the school's performance? I understand that the teachers care. But if the same attitude isn't prevelant all the way to the top, there's only so much the teachers can do!

And top being Frankfort. Presently, Frankfort is concerned about a test number. And that is frustrating for teachers.

 

Again, Jefferson County is a different beast than the rural counties. Competition would probably work for the urban areas. How many of our students would drive 45 minutes one way to attend another school.

[rockmom]

And top being Frankfort. Presently, Frankfort is concerned about a test number. And that is frustrating for teachers.

 

Again, Jefferson County is a different beast than the rural counties. Competition would probably work for the urban areas. How many of our students would drive 45 minutes one way to attend another school.

 

 

That's why I added the caveat that I understood it wouldn't work everywhere. But, I do think there are more places it could work than not.

 

My nephew has to ride 25 minutes one way to the only high school in his county. I'm willing to bet that if he could ride an additional 30 minutes to a school that offered him greater opportunities, it would be done.

[Covercorner]

Kids in the feeder system were not going to the high school as they do now. Not saying that kids from the public school system do not make up part of the population now. It was the kids from the feeder system (or Catholic and in the Diocese) AND Commitment that started the run of good teams. Now, did some kids leave the public school system after that by choice; yes.

[RockPride]

If you feel that way RP, there really is only one answer. One class. One champion. Then there is no "dilution" as you say.

Do you think that I would have a problem with that? I love it.

[Gunner11]

Do you think that I would have a problem with that? I love it.

 

I agree, in every sport except football. :thumb: