Is Prop 20 the best choice?????

[ladiesbballcoach]

Because of rules that are in place if private schools left the KHSAA they would not be able to play schools from other states so getting completely out of the KHSAA is not an option, sorry.

 

IF separation occurs it will as LBBC said be another layer of playoffs within the KHSAA and WILL cost the public schools money.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

Great point. The liability insurance, someone alluded to the cost of it in one of these threads if the privates wanted to create their own association, does not cover non-members of the KHSAA or for an out-of-state team, their version of KHSAA.

 

That is why Oak Hill does not play KY teams anymore or why MMI does not play KY teams.

[All Tell]

Why are the only compromises that should be considered the ones that the public schools put forth?

[Trinity alum]

My contention is merely a question to the private supporters. I am hearing how the proposals are not realistic. I believe that some sort of action HAS to occur since the issue has reached this festering point.

 

It took the task force 3 days of meetings (?) to reach compromises on 3 of 4 issues that I am hearing private school supporters say they cannot live with.

 

At that point, I had really stayed out of the debate post-compromises because I really did not know what I thought of them and needed time to comtemplate. I began to wonder if the compromises were so bad, maybe a split is the best. I will pose the question to you: Prop 20 or compromises?

The private school proposals are really very reasonable. There are some things I don't like about them, but for the most part they are pretty good. I can live with them as a compromise. If the public proposals are adopted, I think we are in court or the legislature.

[ladiesbballcoach]

The private school proposals are really very reasonable. There are some things I don't like about them, but for the most part they are pretty good. I can live with them as a compromise. If the public proposals are adopted, I think we are in court or the legislature.

Actually, I need some clarification as well as others might.

 

Private school compromise proposal: 20 mile radius

 

Public school compromise proposal: feeder school and 20-mile radius.

 

IS THAT CORRECT?

[All Tell]

Public school is feeder system only regardless of proximity.

 

Public is 20 mile plus feeders outside of 20 miles.

[rockmom]

Private schools have also proposed no ban or sanctions for a student moving from private grade school into the public high schools, while accepting a 1 year ban on all sports, and 2 from varsity for public to private student moves.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Public school is feeder system only regardless of proximity.

 

Public is 20 mile plus feeders outside of 20 miles.

Both of these are public?

 

What is the private proposal?

 

From the article theguru posted in this thread on the compromise.

 

Private schools prefer a geographic boundary, perhaps a 20-mile radius. The group approved that radius for smaller non-publics (with 300 or fewer students) yesterday. But the public-school group wants the private schools to draw their student-athletes from related feeder schools. In the publics’ view, student-athletes from non-affiliated schools should face the ineligibility penalty.

 

I do have a problem with the size waivers. Why should LexCath be waived from the 20-mile radius?

 

I don't see the problem with a 20-mile radius and/or feeder school.

[Trinity alum]

I'll take a stab at a summary.

 

First the things that have been agreed to by both sides:

 

1. Kids that are subject to the sanctions will have to sit out one year from competition at all levels and a second year from varsity competition.

 

2. The sanctions will apply to kids that "play up" in middle school and switch to a different system for high school.

 

3. Tuition must be paid by an immediate family member.

 

4. The amount of merit based financial aid a student can receive is limited.

 

5. Private schools with fewer than 300 students can draw students from a twenty mile radius without penalty.

 

The public proposal:

 

1. Sanctions should apply to ANY student that moves from one feeder school system to a different system for high school. The feeder system would be determined based on the seventh and eigth grade.

 

The private proposal:

 

1. The KHSAA should add two enforcement positions to allow more vigorous investigation of infractions.

 

2. Determination of students subject to the sanctions should be based on both an established feeder school pattern or a twenty mile radius.

 

3. Sanctions should not apply to students moving from a private middle school to a public high school.

 

I hope this is an accurate reflection of the proposals. I won't be offended if someone finds a mistake and offers a correction.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I'll take a stab at a summary.

 

First the things that have been agreed to by both sides:

 

1. Kids that are subject to the sanctions will have to sit out one year from competition at all levels and a second year from varsity competition.

 

2. The sanctions will apply to kids that "play up" in middle school and switch to a different system for high school.

 

3. Tuition must be paid by an immediate family member.

 

4. The amount of merit based financial aid a student can receive is limited.

 

The public proposal:

 

1. Sanctions should apply to ANY student that moves from one feeder school system to a different system for high school. The feeder system would be determined based on the seventh and eigth grade.

 

2. Private schools with fewer than 300 students can draw students from a twenty mile radius without penalty.

 

The private proposal:

 

1. The KHSAA should add two enforcement positions to allow more vigorous investigation of infractions.

 

2. Determination of students subject to the sanctions should be based on both an established feeder school pattern or a twenty mile radius.

 

3. Sanctions should not apply to students moving from a private middle school to a public high school.

 

I hope this is an accurate reflection of the proposals. I won't be offended if someone finds a mistake and offers a correction.

I have a problem with #3 on the private side but know it was a concession they are trying to make.

 

At this point, I don't have a problem with #2 on the private side.

 

Again, the CJ article said the size was a private school proposal, not a public and I don't understand why that would be there.

[Trinity alum]

I have a problem with #3 on the private side but know it was a concession they are trying to make.

 

At this point, I don't have a problem with #2 on the private side.

 

Again, the CJ article said the size was a private school proposal, not a public and I don't understand why that would be there.

I should have included the 20 mile radius for the small schools as something that has been agreed to by both sides. The reason I think that the private schools feel that the sanctions should not apply to kids moving from private to public is that we know there are kids that live in areas that have Catholic grade schools but no Catholic high schools. Some of these kids may be willing to make the effort to travel to a large city for a Catholic high school, but for most, that won't be possible. We don't want those kids to be subject to the sanctions just because they live outside Louisville, Lexington, Northern Kentucky or Owensboro. Under the public proposal, kids in E-town that attend a Catholic grade school would be subject to the sanctions unless they commuted to Louisville for high school. That doesn't seem reasonable to me.

[Covercorner]

Both of these are public?

 

What is the private proposal?

 

From the article theguru posted in this thread on the compromise.

 

Private schools prefer a geographic boundary, perhaps a 20-mile radius. The group approved that radius for smaller non-publics (with 300 or fewer students) yesterday. But the public-school group wants the private schools to draw their student-athletes from related feeder schools. In the publics’ view, student-athletes from non-affiliated schools should face the ineligibility penalty.

 

I do have a problem with the size waivers. Why should LexCath be waived from the 20-mile radius?

 

I don't see the problem with a 20-mile radius and/or feeder school.

I would tend to say that, outside of Louisville and NKY, population density is much lower. X, T, and Cov. Cath, being larger Catholic schools, have a much more dense population, thus needing less area to draw from for enrollment to stay afloat. Can't tell you the numbers, but obviously, Lexington and the surronding 20 mile radius area, are not nearly as population dense as Jeff. Co. and NKY. Also, I would tend to believe, and have heard there is data to back this up, that the general Catholic population surrounding Lexington is a fraction of that in Louisville or NKY. Something like in Lexington, less than 10% of the population is Catholic, but in the other two areas, it is closer to 50%. Don't know how true that is, but have heard it mentioned for years.

[Theoldguy]

I would tend to say that, outside of Louisville and NKY, population density is much lower. X, T, and Cov. Cath, being larger Catholic schools, have a much more dense population, thus needing less area to draw from for enrollment to stay afloat. Can't tell you the numbers, but obviously, Lexington and the surronding 20 mile radius area, are not nearly as population dense as Jeff. Co. and NKY. Also, I would tend to believe, and have heard there is data to back this up, that the general Catholic population surrounding Lexington is a fraction of that in Louisville or NKY. Something like in Lexington, less than 10% of the population is Catholic, but in the other two areas, it is closer to 50%. Don't know how true that is, but have heard it mentioned for years.

 

 

CovCath is by no means a large Catholic High School in the sense of X, T or like the huge Cincinnati Catholic high schools like Elder, X etc. While CovCath is all boys, the number aren't really all that big. My guess is around 450 or so.........

[ladiesbballcoach]

I would tend to say that, outside of Louisville and NKY, population density is much lower. X, T, and Cov. Cath, being larger Catholic schools, have a much more dense population, thus needing less area to draw from for enrollment to stay afloat. Can't tell you the numbers, but obviously, Lexington and the surronding 20 mile radius area, are not nearly as population dense as Jeff. Co. and NKY. Also, I would tend to believe, and have heard there is data to back this up, that the general Catholic population surrounding Lexington is a fraction of that in Louisville or NKY. Something like in Lexington, less than 10% of the population is Catholic, but in the other two areas, it is closer to 50%. Don't know how true that is, but have heard it mentioned for years.

One of the mantras I have heard on here consistently is that being Catholic is not necessarily a reason why someone attends a private Catholic school. For some, it is but I have heard it mention several times on BGP, that many non-Catholics attend private Catholic schools because of academics, discipline, etc.

[Covercorner]

One of the mantras I have heard on here consistently is that being Catholic is not necessarily a reason why someone attends a private Catholic school. For some, it is but I have heard it mention several times on BGP, that many non-Catholics attend private Catholic schools because of academics, discipline, etc.

Totally agree, and by no means was I implying that being Catholic should be a requirement for a Catholic school. The reasons that are listed are reasons that both Catholics and non-Catholics attend some Catholic schools. I think that being Catholic may give you a more general connection to the feeder school through the parish you attend, and hence you may have to do less work to find out the ends and outs of the Catholic High school than a non-Catholic. Maybe I'm totally off base with this. Maybe this was more true 40 years ago. Maybe, from some of what has been said by T and X folks, Louisville is a differnt beast, as there doesn't seem to be a direct parish to high school connection. A though that I have is that because of the sheer number of dynamics involved on both sides of the situation, this will eventually be an all or nothing solution. Either the staus quo stays, or separation will occur. Not being a pessimist, just looking at how strongly both sides essentially feel about thier position.

[RockPride]

Is Prop 20 the best choice?

 

 

If we want to "DUMB DOWN" our athletics and allow for dilluted champions?

 

YES...