Is Prop 20 the best choice?????

[ladiesbballcoach]

I posted this in another thread and have been giving the compromises some thought. Reading the posts of both sides of the issues and how the compromises will hurt in so many ways.....Adding into the fact that some sort of action has to result....

 

Is Prop 20 the best choice?

 

Now to RATIONALLY comment on my question, you need to remember that I see Prop 20 as nothing more than creating another class system, like the class sytems in football, track and cross country. I do not buy into the argument "It's kicking the privates out."

 

I wish the grown adults could come up with a solution that addressed the issue but strictly limited the effects on the kids but I really don't have faith in that happening.

 

I think I have come to this position because of my lack in faith of the task force being able to solve the issue.

 

Also, I don't have a major problem in creating this class that would allow open enrollment schools and private schools to actively compete for HS athletes and let them compete for their own championship while those schools that want to stay within their boundaries to compete for theirs.

[PepRock01]

Also, I don't have a major problem in creating this class that would allow open enrollment schools and private schools to actively compete for HS athletes and let them compete for their own championship while those schools that want to stay within their boundaries to compete for theirs.

 

I don't seem to recall open enrollment schools being part of the targeted population by Prop 20. I wouldn't have thought Louisville schools would have been as supportive of it otherwise. Although that would be poetic justice in my mind. Mr. Sexton has to face Trinity after all. :devil:

[bball king]

I posted this in another thread and have been giving the compromises some thought. Reading the posts of both sides of the issues and how the compromises will hurt in so many ways.....Adding into the fact that some sort of action has to result....

 

Is Prop 20 the best choice?

 

Now to RATIONALLY comment on my question, you need to remember that I see Prop 20 as nothing more than creating another class system, like the class sytems in football, track and cross country. I do not buy into the argument "It's kicking the privates out."

 

I wish the grown adults could come up with a solution that addressed the issue but strictly limited the effects on the kids but I really don't have faith in that happening.

 

I think I have come to this position because of my lack in faith of the task force being able to solve the issue.

 

Also, I don't have a major problem in creating this class that would allow open enrollment schools and private schools to actively compete for HS athletes and let them compete for their own championship while those schools that want to stay within their boundaries to compete for theirs.

The only real answer is the seperation of tournaments. Many on the private side talk about the loss of revenues from the tournament. But that only helps a few of the privates not all. The rich want to get richer. A private tournament will draw thousands also. All the revenues will go to the privates. The attendance in the public tournament will also take a hit as some of the privates have a tremendous following. The publics do not look at the tournaments as a revenue source. The privates can create thier own classes if they want to. In basketball there is one tournament today. So I am not sure that the class size is the win all, lose all issue. I still do not see why there is so much opposition to the sperate tournaments.

[rockmom]

The only real answer is the seperation of tournaments. Many on the private side talk about the loss of revenues from the tournament. But that only helps a few of the privates not all. The rich want to get richer. A private tournament will draw thousands also. All the revenues will go to the privates. The attendance in the public tournament will also take a hit as some of the privates have a tremendous following. The publics do not look at the tournaments as a revenue source. The privates can create thier own classes if they want to. In basketball there is one tournament today. So I am not sure that the class size is the win all, lose all issue. I still do not see why there is so much opposition to the sperate tournaments.

 

 

Yet the publics reap the benefits of those large gates during the regular season.....

 

Question....wouldn't the KHSAA run both the private and public tournaments? Isn't the revenue SHARED in the tournaments? Wouldn't any revenue generated by the private school tournaments be pooled and distributed however it's done, including the public schools? Exactly who gains here? :confused:

[ladiesbballcoach]

Yet the publics reap the benefits of those large gates during the regular season.....

 

Question....wouldn't the KHSAA run both the private and public tournaments? Isn't the revenue SHARED in the tournaments? Wouldn't any revenue generated by the private school tournaments be pooled and distributed however it's done, including the public schools? Exactly who gains here? :confused:

I agree. The revenue for the state tournament, NOT district and regionals, would go to the KHSAA not the private schools. Based upon how it is setup now.

[All Tell]

The publics do not look at the tournaments as a revenue source

 

The revenue of any playoff game in football is split between the two schools participating.

 

To say that public schools do not look at these as a source of revenue is just plain wrong. To say that ADs at public schools do not count on the large gate a school like Trinity or St. X brings with them is also wrong.

 

At one point in my life I was part of the football program at a public school in Louisville. At a coaches meeting prior to the season the AD flatly said that the football team NEEDED to make the playoffs that year because they needed income it would bring. This was a small, less then successful school that struggled for every dollar they got. They were in the same district as St. X and the AD was absolutely giddy on they week of the X game because he knew there would be cash coming in either from a JV or varsity game.

 

That's why I am so adamantly opposed to playing regular season games against Kentucky public schools if Prop 20 does pass. If the public schools want the payoff of playing a private school in the regular season then they need to be willing to play them in the playoffs as well.

[ladiesbballcoach]

The revenue of any playoff game in football is split between the two schools participating.

 

To say that public schools do not look at these as a source of revenue is just plain wrong. To say that ADs at public schools do not count on the large gate a school like Trinity or St. X brings with them is also wrong.

 

At one point in my life I was part of the football program at a public school in Louisville. At a coaches meeting prior to the season the AD flatly said that the football team NEEDED to make the playoffs that year because they needed income it would bring. This was a small, less then successful school that struggled for every dollar they got. They were in the same district as St. X and the AD was absolutely giddy on they week of the X game because he knew there would be cash coming in either from a JV or varsity game.

 

That's why I am so adamantly opposed to playing regular season games against Kentucky public schools if Prop 20 does pass. If the public schools want the payoff of playing a private school in the regular season then they need to be willing to play them in the playoffs as well.

As I indicated in my post, the state tournament championship game is the funds that go to KHSAA.

 

AllTell is correct in that District and Regionals are split between the participating schools.

 

And that conversation is not limited to just Louisville football. The 10th region boys basketball teams will get about a $5,000 share for being in the regional tournament. That certainly helps a budget.

[bball king]

Yet the publics reap the benefits of those large gates during the regular season.....

 

Question....wouldn't the KHSAA run both the private and public tournaments? Isn't the revenue SHARED in the tournaments? Wouldn't any revenue generated by the private school tournaments be pooled and distributed however it's done, including the public schools? Exactly who gains here? :confused:

Let the privates completely have control of thier tournaments and keep the KHSAA out of it. No private monies earned in the private tournaments going to any public organization. Take out the private schools following at the gate of the public tournamnet and see what you think it will be reduce by. 30%, 40% or more. The biggest followings in the state are from the privates. I agree with another post if you don't want to play publics then that is your right don't play publics. That is fair

[ladiesbballcoach]

Let the privates completely have control of thier tournaments and keep the KHSAA out of it. No private monies earned in the private tournaments going to any public organization. Take out the private schools following at the gate of the public tournamnet and see what you think it will be reduce by. 30%, 40% or more. The biggest followings in the state are from the privates. I agree with another post if you don't want to play publics then that is your right don't play publics. That is fair

You would have to propose this at the Oct 06 meeting of the KHSAA because that is NOT what Prop 20 is.

 

Prop 20 is just creating another class for the playoffs.

 

Now, as some do on here making assumptions on what the privates do that is actually untrue, there are some that claim that Prop 20 kicks the privates out. It does not do that.

 

If you feel the KHSAA should kick the privates out, you would need to contact the administration of your local HS, private or public, and have them submit that for consideration this October.

 

I hope your proposal gets defeated overwhelmingly.

[All Tell]

another bit for BB KING to digest

 

If there was separation as you are in favor of the private schools would still be members of the KHSAA. A staff member of the KHSAA has already indicated that if they have to put on separate tournaments for the public and private schools current revenues that they bring in from Boy's Basketball and Football championships (the two that make money) would not cover the additional costs and that the KHSAA would probably have to start keeping ALL playoff money (including regional basketball) to cover the additional expenses.

 

That would be a huge hit to a whole lot of public schools.

[TigerKat]

another bit for BB KING to digest

 

If there was separation as you are in favor of the private schools would still be members of the KHSAA. A staff member of the KHSAA has already indicated that if they have to put on separate tournaments for the public and private schools current revenues that they bring in from Boy's Basketball and Football championships (the two that make money) would not cover the additional costs and that the KHSAA would probably have to start keeping ALL playoff money (including regional basketball) to cover the additional expenses.

 

That would be a huge hit to a whole lot of public schools.

 

In a way I hope it goes through and X and Trinity go solo. I hear the only glitch is the insurance they would have to get would be too expensive vs. what they get form the KHSAA. I feel sorry for the small private schools that is it. X and T would survive and probably thrive on the national scene. Then they would actually be able to do what everyone says they already do but we know the truth.

[bball king]

another bit for BB KING to digest

 

If there was separation as you are in favor of the private schools would still be members of the KHSAA. A staff member of the KHSAA has already indicated that if they have to put on separate tournaments for the public and private schools current revenues that they bring in from Boy's Basketball and Football championships (the two that make money) would not cover the additional costs and that the KHSAA would probably have to start keeping ALL playoff money (including regional basketball) to cover the additional expenses.

 

That would be a huge hit to a whole lot of public schools.

Let the private sector administrate its own programs. Pull out of the KHSAA and form your own governing body. I am positive it would be better and less political. Lets not let money drive the solution. KHSAA would only have one tournament to handle and that is enough for them.

[Trinity alum]

You would have to propose this at the Oct 06 meeting of the KHSAA because that is NOT what Prop 20 is.

 

Prop 20 is just creating another class for the playoffs.

 

Now, as some do on here making assumptions on what the privates do that is actually untrue, there are some that claim that Prop 20 kicks the privates out. It does not do that.

 

If you feel the KHSAA should kick the privates out, you would need to contact the administration of your local HS, private or public, and have them submit that for consideration this October.

 

I hope your proposal gets defeated overwhelmingly.

You are correct that Prop 20 does not kick the privates out, but it does effectively eliminate them from a great deal of post season play. In football there are only a couple of teams per size classification. Four rounds of the playoffs and the associated revenue and playing time would be eliminated for the privates. District tournaments in other sports would also be eliminated since there are more districts than there are private teams. Regional tournaments would not amount to much since there would only be three teams per region. All of this would greatly reduce the playing opportunities for private school kids and also reduce the revenue stream for these same schools. Effectively, it would kick the privates out of post season play. How would you like a proposal that said that Woodford County and Campbell County were to be placed in a separate classification by themselves for wrestling? After all, they must have some sort of unfair advantage. Otherwise they wouldn't win so much. They wouldn't be kicked out, it's just a separate classification. The idea that the people that are operating schools with a built in economic advantage of thousands of dollars, subsidized by the parents of the very kids they would kick out of post season play, think that it is okay to decide to kick our kids out is infuriating beyond belief. Quite frankly, I find your contention in another thread that Prop 20 would cause the least harm to be unsupportable. The harm would be concentrated almost exclusively on the very families that are already paying a disproportionate share of thew cost of educating the children of the commonwealth.

[All Tell]

Let the private sector administrate its own programs. Pull out of the KHSAA and form your own governing body. I am positive it would be better and less political. Lets not let money drive the solution. KHSAA would only have one tournament to handle and that is enough for them.

Because of rules that are in place if private schools left the KHSAA they would not be able to play schools from other states so getting completely out of the KHSAA is not an option, sorry.

 

IF separation occurs it will as LBBC said be another layer of playoffs within the KHSAA and WILL cost the public schools money.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

[ladiesbballcoach]

You are correct that Prop 20 does not kick the privates out, but it does effectively eliminate them from a great deal of post season play. In football there are only a couple of teams per size classification. Four rounds of the playoffs and the associated revenue and playing time would be eliminated for the privates. District tournaments in other sports would also be eliminated since there are more districts than there are private teams. Regional tournaments would not amount to much since there would only be three teams per region. All of this would greatly reduce the playing opportunities for private school kids and also reduce the revenue stream for these same schools. Effectively, it would kick the privates out of post season play. How would you like a proposal that said that Woodford County and Campbell County were to be placed in a separate classification by themselves for wrestling? After all, they must have some sort of unfair advantage. Otherwise they wouldn't win so much. They wouldn't be kicked out, it's just a separate classification. The idea that the people that are operating schools with a built in economic advantage of thousands of dollars, subsidized by the parents of the very kids they would kick out of post season play, think that it is okay to decide to kick our kids out is infuriating beyond belief. Quite frankly, I find your contention in another thread that Prop 20 would cause the least harm to be unsupportable. The harm would be concentrated almost exclusively on the very families that are already paying a disproportionate share of thew cost of educating the children of the commonwealth.

My contention is merely a question to the private supporters. I am hearing how the proposals are not realistic. I believe that some sort of action HAS to occur since the issue has reached this festering point.

 

It took the task force 3 days of meetings (?) to reach compromises on 3 of 4 issues that I am hearing private school supporters say they cannot live with.

 

At that point, I had really stayed out of the debate post-compromises because I really did not know what I thought of them and needed time to comtemplate. I began to wonder if the compromises were so bad, maybe a split is the best. I will pose the question to you: Prop 20 or compromises?