Strength of schedule

[kypride]

I think 10 to 15 years ago strength of schedule was a very under rated aspect in football. Now,however I believe it is generally over-rated by the majority of posters on these sites. Some people believe that SOS and that alone is the way to tell if one team is better than another. It is far and away the first thing brought up in these arguments. Actual TALENT is the best way to judge a team to me.

Look at this logical fallacy: The university of Louisville plays a weak schedule. The University of Kentucky plays a much harder schedule some rated as #7 in the nation during pre-season. Therefore U.K. should be rated higher than Louisville.

 

The fallacy doesn't take into consideration Louisville is actually way more TALENTED than U.K. and is actually winning those games where U.K. is not.

 

Anyone else see my point?

 

I don't think SOS is nothing but it is more of a tie breaker on a resume to me than predictor of who will win a match-up.

[uk#1fan]

Totally agree.

[Hellbird]

Couldn't agree more.

 

SOS is great, if you can win those games. Having a great SOS means squat if you still lose.

 

Just because a team has a tough SOS and is barely a .500 team doesn't automatically make that team the best over other teams that don't play as tough of a SOS but wins.

[RCC9]

I assume you are talking about me! I could care less what SOS does for a rating. Or whether a team is good or not. SOS has EVERYTHING to do with preparing your team to play against the best. When you don't challenge your team and the season is a cakewalk, they do not know how to react when they see someone decent. They are a deer in headlights. Example to turn around on you. Trinity is 4-3 or whatever they are. SK is 7-0. Is SK better? Nope! Which team will be more prepared for the playoff run. The team that saw equally challenging opponents every week or the team that walked over teams all year. Let me give you another example...SK had a good year last year...until they ran into SC in the playoffs. They were absolutely amazed by their team athleticism and speed. HHS played that SC and they didn't even have a first down in the first half. Same team that SK was AMAZED by. My point, when you don't see that and aren't exposed to that during the season, you don't know how to react when someone can match your size, speed and athleticism. And god forbid they are even a little better in one of those areas.

 

I have coached for a long time and now coach HS fastpitch. I can tell you right now with the schedule we have coming up this year, we will be lucky to be 500 during the regular season. We are playing all the best teams in NKY, some from down state and SEVERAL of Cincy's best. I could care less what our record will be going into the playoffs because I will know that I challenge my team and we did everything possible to prepare them for a playoff run. Will we win it or will it payoff, no idea. But we won't look back at the end of the season and say I wish we would have played a more challenging schedule to prepare us for this moment!

 

It's fool's gold to play a weak schedule. I could care less where teams rank or where they should be considered. At the end of the day, you have to be prepared to play the best. Your schedule can assist in preparing you. Your record can't.

 

Let me ask this...Do you think the no loss Boise State, Utah and TCU's that happened recently were actually better than the 1-2 loss SEC teams that made it or even didn't make it? Do you really think ND was the 2nd best team in the nation last year????

 

SOS does help determine rank at times, but in your example those two teams would not be compared to each other anyway, because talent is considered. SOS is just one factor, but you absolutely cannot ignore it.

 

But again, I don't really care because my challenge of the schedules of, for example of SK, has nothing to do with rankings. Its about preparation! But you can't really blame others for not "drinking the kool-aid" after they look at who they are actually beating. When we see posts about claiming SK should be considered one of the best and one of the arguments is that they are 7-0, then the first thing anyone that knows anything about sports is going to go is look at the schedule to see who they beat. If they haven't really played anyone challenging (and 6A powerhouse schools who are including 2A and avg 4 and 5A schools as challenging is not considered challenging in my opinion), then skeptics will come out. In my opinion, SK will never beat the big boys playing the type of schedules they do. Nothing to do with rank. If a 6A school is scheduling lower division opponents with losing records, how can you not agree that it will do more harm than good in the long run. Challenge yourselves year in and year out and you'll eventually get good enough to compete.

[Hellbird]

RC, there is nothing wrong with playing a tough schedule. That's not what we are saying.

 

What we are saying is just because you play a tough schedule doesn't automatically make you great.

 

Unfortunately there are some on here that think because their school plays a tough schedule, win or lose, automatically means they are better than everyone else

[RCC9]

I would agree 100% that SOS does not mean your team is better than someone elses.

[NamecipS]

Team 1 - 6A school (with the exception of their district games) plays run of the mill 1A and 2A schools and a couple so so 5A schools

 

Team 2 - 6A school (again district exception) plays upper echelon 5A and other decent 6A schools

 

Team 1 is undefeated...Team 2 loses a couple games...

 

Team 1 is better because they're undefeated.

 

That's what I see when reading your SOS argument Hellbird

[BigVMan23]

Under most cases, I would say for strength of schedule to matter for ranking purposes, then school ABC who is playing a bunch of tough games needs to win some of them for it to matter. Anybody can play a tough schedule and lose all the tough games. Like Kentucky football in the example used...you can't brag about playing in the SEC and playing a tough schedule if you almost never win any of those games.

 

High school football though, can be/is a little bit different. Lets take the much talked about on this board Newport Central Catholic. Small 2A school. Plays a bunch of bigger 5A and 6A schools in non-district. This year they struggled in those games and their record doesn't look all that great. BUT, even though they didn't win those games, as RCC9 has pointed out, it may very well and probably has helped prepare them for the 2A road ahead. So, in essence, a good 1A or 2A school could put a brutal non-district schedule together against much larger comp, lose ALL those games and still possibly be one of or even the best team in their class. So in this case, the team may not have to win as I stated above.

 

What I think is more telling is when these big schools schedule down and/or schedule weaker opponents in their respective class. Lets take Scott Co. for instance. 7-0. Darn good record. Combined won loss for the teams they have played, 16-37. Played one team with a winning record, and played three teams with only 1 win each this late in the season. How good is Scott Co? Man, I have no clue, neither does almost anyone else. They MIGHT be the best team in KY. they MIGHT not be top 5 in their own class, I really don't know. What I do know is, I don't think their schedule has/will help prepare them for though battles in the state tournament. Now, to be fair, one or two of those games might have been scheduled thinking the teams would be decent, like maybe PRP for example. But it didn't turn out that way. If I'm Scott Co, and my goal is to build a 6A championship team, and I think I am well on my way there, then I absolutely BURN UP Trinity's, St. X's, BG's phone trying to get a game or two EVERY YEAR. Just seems to me they go out of their way not to do that. But that's another thread I guess. Anyway, point being my team can only learn from playing in games like that, and even if we lose it helps in the long run.

[Hellbird]

Team 1 - 6A school (with the exception of their district games) plays run of the mill 1A and 2A schools and a couple so so 5A schools

 

Team 2 - 6A school (again district exception) plays upper echelon 5A and other decent 6A schools

 

Team 1 is undefeated...Team 2 loses a couple games...

 

Team 1 is better because they're undefeated.

 

That's what I see when reading your SOS argument Hellbird

 

Not even close.

 

Let me try and explain it differently and what I have heard on here as some examples. We will use your 2 teams as an example.

 

Team 1 is better because they went undefeated including beating team 2. After all you did say both were 6a schools and probably since they are in the same area played each other in district play.

 

Now I will give you exactly what has been said on here in the past and why the SOS argument is a joke with this way of thinking.

 

Team 1 plays good schedule but also has some cupcakes in their schedule. This team plays 5A. Outside of district play thy played 4 6A schools a 2A school and a 4a schools. They finished reg season 9-1. They went to the state title game and lost by 14.

It was said by more than a few on here if they would of played a tougher SOS by playing a certain 4A team in the area that they would of won the state title because they would of been better prepared.

 

That couldn't be further from the truth. What we are saying is playing a great SOS doesn't garuntee you anything especially winning the state title. If that were the case then HHS and T etc would have schools lines up begging to play them. Did all the schools last year that played Highlands win state titles in their Class?

[uk#1fan]

I assume you are talking about me! I could care less what SOS does for a rating. Or whether a team is good or not. SOS has EVERYTHING to do with preparing your team to play against the best. When you don't challenge your team and the season is a cakewalk, they do not know how to react when they see someone decent. They are a deer in headlights. Example to turn around on you. Trinity is 4-3 or whatever they are. SK is 7-0. Is SK better? Nope! Which team will be more prepared for the playoff run. The team that saw equally challenging opponents every week or the team that walked over teams all year. Let me give you another example...SK had a good year last year...until they ran into SC in the playoffs. They were absolutely amazed by their team athleticism and speed. HHS played that SC and they didn't even have a first down in the first half. Same team that SK was AMAZED by. My point, when you don't see that and aren't exposed to that during the season, you don't know how to react when someone can match your size, speed and athleticism. And god forbid they are even a little better in one of those areas.

 

I have coached for a long time and now coach HS fastpitch. I can tell you right now with the schedule we have coming up this year, we will be lucky to be 500 during the regular season. We are playing all the best teams in NKY, some from down state and SEVERAL of Cincy's best. I could care less what our record will be going into the playoffs because I will know that I challenge my team and we did everything possible to prepare them for a playoff run. Will we win it or will it payoff, no idea. But we won't look back at the end of the season and say I wish we would have played a more challenging schedule to prepare us for this moment!

 

It's fool's gold to play a weak schedule. I could care less where teams rank or where they should be considered. At the end of the day, you have to be prepared to play the best. Your schedule can assist in preparing you. Your record can't.

 

Let me ask this...Do you think the no loss Boise State, Utah and TCU's that happened recently were actually better than the 1-2 loss SEC teams that made it or even didn't make it? Do you really think ND was the 2nd best team in the nation last year????

 

SOS does help determine rank at times, but in your example those two teams would not be compared to each other anyway, because talent is considered. SOS is just one factor, but you absolutely cannot ignore it.

 

But again, I don't really care because my challenge of the schedules of, for example of SK, has nothing to do with rankings. Its about preparation! But you can't really blame others for not "drinking the kool-aid" after they look at who they are actually beating. When we see posts about claiming SK should be considered one of the best and one of the arguments is that they are 7-0, then the first thing anyone that knows anything about sports is going to go is look at the schedule to see who they beat. If they haven't really played anyone challenging (and 6A powerhouse schools who are including 2A and avg 4 and 5A schools as challenging is not considered challenging in my opinion), then skeptics will come out. In my opinion, SK will never beat the big boys playing the type of schedules they do. Nothing to do with rank. If a 6A school is scheduling lower division opponents with losing records, how can you not agree that it will do more harm than good in the long run. Challenge yourselves year in and year out and you'll eventually get good enough to compete.

 

To clear things up. Who ever SK plays in the playoffs SK will beat them. Then your theory goes out the window.

[sportsfan41]

I assume you are talking about me! I could care less what SOS does for a rating. Or whether a team is good or not. SOS has EVERYTHING to do with preparing your team to play against the best. When you don't challenge your team and the season is a cakewalk, they do not know how to react when they see someone decent. They are a deer in headlights. Example to turn around on you. Trinity is 4-3 or whatever they are. SK is 7-0. Is SK better? Nope! Which team will be more prepared for the playoff run. The team that saw equally challenging opponents every week or the team that walked over teams all year. Let me give you another example...SK had a good year last year...until they ran into SC in the playoffs. They were absolutely amazed by their team athleticism and speed. HHS played that SC and they didn't even have a first down in the first half. Same team that SK was AMAZED by. My point, when you don't see that and aren't exposed to that during the season, you don't know how to react when someone can match your size, speed and athleticism. And god forbid they are even a little better in one of those areas.

 

I have coached for a long time and now coach HS fastpitch. I can tell you right now with the schedule we have coming up this year, we will be lucky to be 500 during the regular season. We are playing all the best teams in NKY, some from down state and SEVERAL of Cincy's best. I could care less what our record will be going into the playoffs because I will know that I challenge my team and we did everything possible to prepare them for a playoff run. Will we win it or will it payoff, no idea. But we won't look back at the end of the season and say I wish we would have played a more challenging schedule to prepare us for this moment!

 

It's fool's gold to play a weak schedule. I could care less where teams rank or where they should be considered. At the end of the day, you have to be prepared to play the best. Your schedule can assist in preparing you. Your record can't.

 

Let me ask this...Do you think the no loss Boise State, Utah and TCU's that happened recently were actually better than the 1-2 loss SEC teams that made it or even didn't make it? Do you really think ND was the 2nd best team in the nation last year????

 

SOS does help determine rank at times, but in your example those two teams would not be compared to each other anyway, because talent is considered. SOS is just one factor, but you absolutely cannot ignore it.

 

But again, I don't really care because my challenge of the schedules of, for example of SK, has nothing to do with rankings. Its about preparation! But you can't really blame others for not "drinking the kool-aid" after they look at who they are actually beating. When we see posts about claiming SK should be considered one of the best and one of the arguments is that they are 7-0, then the first thing anyone that knows anything about sports is going to go is look at the schedule to see who they beat. If they haven't really played anyone challenging (and 6A powerhouse schools who are including 2A and avg 4 and 5A schools as challenging is not considered challenging in my opinion), then skeptics will come out. In my opinion, SK will never beat the big boys playing the type of schedules they do. Nothing to do with rank. If a 6A school is scheduling lower division opponents with losing records, how can you not agree that it will do more harm than good in the long run. Challenge yourselves year in and year out and you'll eventually get good enough to compete.

 

He could be, but when I first read the thread I got the feeling that he was referring to Trinity and Bowling Green. I could be wrong but that was just my take.

[75center]

I have no idea what the thread is about as posts are all over the place from rankings to preparing for playoff games to winning state championships.

[kypride]

I was referring to the "this could be interesting thread" and some people on another site who said Russelville had 0 chance against Mayfield because of their schedule.

[kypride]

They totally dismiss Russelville as the #2 team in 1a without addressing the fact that Russellville has enough TALENT, senior leadership, and coaching from John Myers to be a real threat to Mayfield. It will not be the first time they have experienced anything since they play every year and John is a very experienced coach.

[RCC9]

To clear things up. Who ever SK plays in the playoffs SK will beat them. Then your theory goes out the window.

 

Yep! IF that happens, I will be the first one on here to congratulate them. I promise! I will also meet you at your favorite establishment and by you a beer or 10!

 

But I'm really not too concerned with hanging by my computer that day because history tells me we have seen this all too often. There is no doubt SK could make the finals, because I'm not sure there are any other good teams on their side of the bracket (i have no idea really), but as soon as they play one of the big four from the other side, I believe their season will end. I wish it wasn't the case, but because of who they have played and the outcomes of those games, I have no reason to believe they can compete with the big guys.