Abortion Rights vs. Gun Rights

[Clyde]

I am against the governments involvement of pricing any citizen out of any legal activity. Taxes are necessary in some cases but the intent of the tax needs to be examined. The government is not our parent and should not treat us as children.

But to answer your question what I was asking ties directly into this topic. One of the many talking points against requiring ID to vote was the undo burden or cost it would bring on the elderly or less wealthy citizens. Many liberals or Obama supporters on this very site stated as such just a few months ago. I'm just trying to get clarification if its ok to price people out of some constitutional rights and its not ok to price them out of others. Is their some sort of hierarchy the founding fathers put out that I was unaware of, and if so could you provide said document.

 

But to use your term from earlier in simple terms do we have a Violence problem in this country to a degree yes we do. But I would not classify it as a gun problem because I never define a constitutional right as a problem. Let me ask you this, where do a majority of gun murders take place and who is most often the criminal that commits the murder?

 

So you say there is not an abortion problem?

[LIPTON BASH]

So you say there is not an abortion problem?

 

I'm pro-life , against the woman's right to choose to murder another life. One of the very few conservative social stances I have. Abortion is legal under the law and my fiscal conservative side would not allow me to approve a tax to price people out of a legal procedure. Do I have personal problem with abortion being legal yes I do. Do I think Roe vs Wade was a misguided ruling by the Supreme Court. Yes I do. Do I hope one day unprotected life in the womb gets the same protection as all other Americans of course I do. But there are proper ways in our Nation to address these issues. Currently on the Gun issue I see nothing but propaganda , lack of understanding for the very topic, and no true sense on how to tackle the issue.

 

So I ask you again where do most murders take place and who commmit a large portion of the murders.

[sportsfan41]

I'm cool with that.

 

Word

[SportsGuy41017]

I'm cool with both. Raising taxes on guns and ammo isn't going to stop someone who wants to go on a killing spree. Unless they set a tax at $5-10 per round, they are not taxing people out of defending themselves.

[LIPTON BASH]

I'm cool with both. Raising taxes on guns and ammo isn't going to stop someone who wants to go on a killing spree. Unless they set a tax at $5-10 per round, they are not taxing people out of defending themselves.

 

So your saying the same people who can't afford an ID to vote wouldn't be taxed out of being able to purchase ammo?

If you taxed rounds of ammo $5-$10 a round you are doing nothing but affecting peoples ability to defend themself.

[SportsGuy41017]

 

So your saying the same people who can't afford an ID to vote wouldn't be taxed out of being able to purchase ammo?

If you taxed rounds of ammo $5-$10 a round you are doing nothing but affecting peoples ability to defend themself.

 

You sure do like to put words in people's mouths don't you? I said UNLESS they put a $5-$10 tax per round.

[LIPTON BASH]

You sure do like to put words in people's mouths don't you? I said UNLESS they put a $5-$10 tax per round.

 

I apologize. I misunderstood.

 

So in that case what would be the goal of adding the tax if it didn't prevent anyone to purchase?

[marvel]

How bad do you want the gun and ammo? It's really that simple? If it's not a big deal you won't pay because of the extra tax. If you really want that gun and ammo you'll pay because it's worth it.

 

So, no big deal to me. I get to make the same decision on a lot of purchases that include a tax.

 

You should be more upset with gun stores that have jacked up prices due to demand. I'm not as I believe it's cool to do so as long as it's not in response to a disaster (ie raising cost of bread/milk due to a hurricane).

 

Gun store owners are playing a lot of people like a fiddle.

 

Someone could make the argument that we should be more upset with the government trying to pass legislation that directly affects the availability of weapons that an individual may use to defend themselves. But whatever, that's not the main point I wanted to make.

 

Don't you think the latter example you gave is still the one with moral high ground? The price is set by the supplier, if the consumer doesn't like it, they don't buy. The beauty of a market with choice. Its all voluntary.

 

The gun store's profits are being threatened when their supplies they provide are on the brink of being illegal. When you threaten to make something illegal, the cost will go up. Who is threatening to make certain weapons illegal? That is what happens when you threaten to stop the supply.

 

If you're worried about gun violence like you said: "but we can all agree that gun violence is a problem." can you please explain how that is going to solve gun violence? You said yourself if someone wants them bad enough, they'll go ahead and pay the tax. So where exactly is the solution? Sounds like a revenue scheme to me and a way to tax middle income americans.

[Clyde]

I'm pro-life , against the woman's right to choose to murder another life. One of the very few conservative social stances I have. Abortion is legal under the law and my fiscal conservative side would not allow me to approve a tax to price people out of a legal procedure. Do I have personal problem with abortion being legal yes I do. Do I think Roe vs Wade was a misguided ruling by the Supreme Court. Yes I do. Do I hope one day unprotected life in the womb gets the same protection as all other Americans of course I do. But there are proper ways in our Nation to address these issues. Currently on the Gun issue I see nothing but propaganda , lack of understanding for the very topic, and no true sense on how to tackle the issue.

 

So I ask you again where do most murders take place and who commmit a large portion of the murders.

 

I asked to guage whether your stance was based on the Constitution as you led me to believe. I see that it's not really based on the Constitution.

 

I don't know the answer to your question and I'm not sure how it is pertinent to your original argument.

[Clyde]

So your saying the same people who can't afford an ID to vote wouldn't be taxed out of being able to purchase ammo?

If you taxed rounds of ammo $5-$10 a round you are doing nothing but affecting peoples ability to defend themself.

 

Most people against Voter ID are not against it due to $$.

[Clyde]

Someone could make the argument that we should be more upset with the government trying to pass legislation that directly affects the availability of weapons that an individual may use to defend themselves. But whatever, that's not the main point I wanted to make.

 

Don't you think the latter example you gave is still the one with moral high ground? The price is set by the supplier, if the consumer doesn't like it, they don't buy. The beauty of a market with choice. Its all voluntary.

 

The gun store's profits are being threatened when their supplies they provide are on the brink of being illegal. When you threaten to make something illegal, the cost will go up. Who is threatening to make certain weapons illegal? That is what happens when you threaten to stop the supply.

 

If you're worried about gun violence like you said: "but we can all agree that gun violence is a problem." can you please explain how that is going to solve gun violence? You said yourself if someone wants them bad enough, they'll go ahead and pay the tax. So where exactly is the solution? Sounds like a revenue scheme to me and a way to tax middle income americans.

 

I've never once said that much, if any, of the legislation is going to have an impact on gun violence. I'm just for common sense legislation and a registry (as hard as that is going to be).

[SportsGuy41017]

I apologize. I misunderstood.

 

So in that case what would be the goal of adding the tax if it didn't prevent anyone to purchase?

 

It's not, that was my point. I don't think people who are going on a shooting spree will go out and buy anything but the cheapest, I don't see them buying something like EFMJ, and unless they are an idiot they don't need a lot of rounds. I could see them using the tax to help with the mental health issue, but that would be too simple.

[marvel]

I've never once said that much, if any, of the legislation is going to have an impact on gun violence. I'm just for common sense legislation and a registry (as hard as that is going to be).

 

Then what is the point of taxing? Why do you make it harder for law abiding citizens to get a ammo and allow the government makes money from it? That isn't common sense. You said it was no big deal, but do you even ask yourself if its necessary or is it just price gouging by the government?

[LIPTON BASH]

I asked to guage whether your stance was based on the Constitution as you led me to believe. I see that it's not really based on the Constitution.

 

I don't know the answer to your question and I'm not sure how it is pertinent to your original argument.

 

I don't know how anything I said there wasn't based on the Constitution? Infact I even stated that I couldn't allow my personal belief influence my decision such as a tax on abortions? My stance is entirley based off the constitution.

 

Come on man I'm not buying you don't know where a large portion or a majority of gun violence occurs. It goes to the heart of are we solving the violence problem efficently. Why is it people such as you and other first response to violence to restrict law abiding people. If we are going to violate rights which I don't think we should at all. Why wouldn't your first response be to violate the rights of criminals?

 

So I'll ask again where does a majority of violent crimes take place and who commits a large portion of these crimes.

[SportsGuy41017]

^Speaking of where the large number of gun violence happens. Early this week I saw where there has been over 2,000 deaths due to gun violence since Sandy Hook, does anyone have the numbers on where they happened?