When it rains, it pours

A little over a week ago, I decided to tackle some issues around our house, with one of them being to trim some branches hanging over our house. It had been a good 5 or 6 years since I had done it last, so there were several that were getting close to the roof. So, I get out the extension ladder and up I go. But, before I can even trim one branch, I notice that the roof is soft where I stepped. So, I carefully slide my foot off of that spot onto another. Guess what? It's soft too! After some tip-toeing around (trying to stay on the joists), I come to the realization that nearly the entire front part of our roof is in bad, bad shape.

So, Monday I call the roofer. Due to some communications mix-up, it's not until later in the week when he comes down. Unfortunately, I'm at work at the time, so he only examines the outside. But, he calls me later to say that I've had definite wind damage up there. So, I figure that rain has gotten in and weakened the sheathing. The next call goes to the insurance company. We get a claim started, and Friday the adjuster calls me and we set up a time to meet (yesterday) for him to come take a look at everything.

He came yesterday, and verified that there was some wind damage. But, after some deeper inspection in our crawl space (we don't really have a true attic), he found that there was sheathing damage in places other than where the shingles had been damaged by the wind. Said it was likely due to a ventilation issue. Great.

Oh, and I forgot to say that when I called my agent to start the claim, she told me that the company that we have our insurance through, is getting out of homeowners coverage and that we'd be getting a letter stating that our policy would not be renewed at the end of October. Just wonderful, right?

So, now I've got a roof that's been damaged by wind (that should be covered by insurance), but the company providing the insurance is getting out of the business (so, they really don't care about retaining any customers), and an adjuster who may say that the majority of damage was caused by poor ventilation (which may not be covered anyway). So, in the end, I may have just filed a claim for nothing (other than assuring I'll have higher rates from whomever the next provider we get for coverage).

Oh, and here's the kick to the groin...in addition to having that all come to a head yesterday...our AC went out a few hours later. Fun and joy at the CSF household!

Sorry for the rant.

Stories like this always reaffirm why I am in absolutely no rush to buy a house.

That sucks, CSF. Hope it all works out for you.

You may need a lawyer. You have to weigh all the costs.

And sorry to hear it all CSF.

I did the furnace/roof replacement in the same summer a couple of years back. I also had lots of soft spots and had to replace the sheathing. I ended up changing insurance companies afterward the fact because they had raised the deductible for wind/hail damage from $500 to 20% of the total cost of replacement, which ended up costing me an extra $1500 out of pocket. I suspect you'll still get covered for the hail damage, which as you mention will only be a small part of bill.

The good news is once it's done, it's done, and the roof hopefully won't be a problem for a long time, and the furnace will likely be worry free for the next 5 years, and not likely to be an issue again for probably 10 years or so. Not to mention, it will be more efficient and you'll immediately notice a difference in your heating/cooling bills.

I guess God didn't want me to have an ulcer...the adjuster just called me. He's going to recommend complete replacement of shingles/flashing/roof vent. Unfortunately (like my roofer predicted), my policy doesn't cover the sheathing...so, we'll be out of pocket for that. Plus, there's an ice/water barrier that we currently don't have (that both the adjuster and roofer recommend, due to the low pitch of our roof) that we'll have to pay for. When you factor in our deductible, it looks like insurance is going to cover at least half of it. Which the way I look at it, is 50% more than what I thought we'd get. Now, here's hoping the AC tech can give me some (relatively) good news on Friday when he comes.

I guess God didn't want me to have an ulcer...the adjuster just called me. He's going to recommend complete replacement of shingles/flashing/roof vent. Unfortunately (like my roofer predicted), my policy doesn't cover the sheathing...so, we'll be out of pocket for that. Plus, there's an ice/water barrier that we currently don't have (that both the adjuster and roofer recommend, due to the low pitch of our roof) that we'll have to pay for. When you factor in our deductible, it looks like insurance is going to cover at least half of it. Which the way I look at it, is 50% more than what I thought we'd get. Now, here's hoping the AC tech can give me some (relatively) good news on Friday when he comes.

What company you using for the AC?

What company you using for the AC?

Was recommended Bob's Heating and Air out of Hebron.

Was recommended Bob's Heating and Air out of Hebron.

I was just curious as my parents' AC went out last week. The first company that came out said their's was shot along with their furnace, so they quoted them for a whole new system. They got a 2nd opinion, and the AC was an easy fix, and the furnace part that was bad was still under warranty.

I was just curious as my parents' AC went out last week. The first company that came out said their's was shot along with their furnace, so they quoted them for a whole new system. They got a 2nd opinion, and the AC was an easy fix, and the furnace part that was bad was still under warranty.

Well, that's the sort of comments we got from a couple of people on Bob's. One said another company had told them they needed a complete replacement, but Bob's was able to simply fix it. The other one said that they (themselves) had thought they needed/wanted a particular unit. Bob's told them that was overkill for their situation/application and saved them lots of $$$ by going with a smaller unit.

I guess God didn't want me to have an ulcer...the adjuster just called me. He's going to recommend complete replacement of shingles/flashing/roof vent. Unfortunately (like my roofer predicted), my policy doesn't cover the sheathing...so, we'll be out of pocket for that. Plus, there's an ice/water barrier that we currently don't have (that both the adjuster and roofer recommend, due to the low pitch of our roof) that we'll have to pay for. When you factor in our deductible, it looks like insurance is going to cover at least half of it. Which the way I look at it, is 50% more than what I thought we'd get. Now, here's hoping the AC tech can give me some (relatively) good news on Friday when he comes.

If you have a low-pitch roof with asphalt shingles, I'll go ahead and bet that the lack of ice & water barrier has as much as anything to do with the fact that your roof sheathing is soft/rotting. That's 100% sound advice for you to install that before you put down new shingles. Also, as far as your cost is concerned, you should see if you can argue with your insurance to make them pay for the cost of ice & water barrier on all the roof edges and valleys - having ice & water barrier installed at roof edges and valleys has been standard of practice in the roofing industry for probably 25+ years at this point, and for them to not cover it is total bush league.

But yeah, with a low pitch roof, the granular surface of the shingles can actually work against you by retaining moisture due to surface tension, and then that causes significantly more rapid breakdown of the bitumen in the shingles. Snow and ice damming is an even bigger factor though. You'll end up collecting moisture on your roof, and likely under your shingles almost every time you have snow accumulation, and the gradual melt of the snow and ice are absolutely bound to get under the shingles of a low pitch roof. This diagram hopefully helps explain ice damming a little.

I was just curious as my parents' AC went out last week. The first company that came out said their's was shot along with their furnace, so they quoted them for a whole new system. They got a 2nd opinion, and the AC was an easy fix, and the furnace part that was bad was still under warranty.

Well, that's the sort of comments we got from a couple of people on Bob's. One said another company had told them they needed a complete replacement, but Bob's was able to simply fix it. The other one said that they (themselves) had thought they needed/wanted a particular unit. Bob's told them that was overkill for their situation/application and saved them lots of $$$ by going with a smaller unit.

I know a LOT of folks who swear by Teegarden HVAC out of Alexandria, KY.

My parents have used Poston Brothers out of Burlington, KY since they bought their first house in 1975 and wouldn't even consider using anyone else.

Schneller & Knochelmann Plumbing, Heating & Air is another reputable company in northern Kentucky.

Regardless, get multiple prices on the AC, and make sure you get the same sized units priced up so you know you're comparing apples to apples. Around Kentucky, folks are probably going to need between a 3 and 4 ton unit for their houses. In very general terms, a 3 ton AC unit will serve a 1600-1900 square foot house, a 3-1/2 ton AC unit will serve a 1900-2200 square foot house, and a 4 ton AC unit will serve a 2200-2500 square foot house. There are some additional pieces of info that contribute towards figuring out your AC unit's size, including how the cold air return is set up in your house - or even IF your house has any cold air return, but that tonnage/square footage info is a little bit of knowledge for you to start with so you're not walking in blind. Also, if you have an older house with un-insulated exterior walls (common in older houses), you may want to size up a little to compensate for lack of insulation with air-flow. Also, I would personally want to have my HVAC contractors price up similar manufacturers in addition to similar unit sizes. Generally speaking, American Standard, Trane, Rheem, and Lennox are your best bets for manufacturers. Goodman, York, and Amana are still fine manufacturer, but they may not last quite as long as the manufacturers I mentioned previously. If you have one guy pricing up a 3-1/2 ton American Standard unit, and another guy pricing up a 3-1/2 ton York unit, then you'll probably have almost $1000 difference in pricing based on the equipment cost alone.

Thanks for the advice @Colonels_Wear_Blue ! Our house is on the small size...less than 1200 square feet easily. Single level, sort of, as our living room/dining room is "sunken" compared to the rest of the house. We have the paperwork from the original installation (back in 2000), including the receipt. I don't remember the capacity on it off-hand, but it was a Rheem that the previous owner paid $1500 for (including the unit, set up, and installation of a cold-air return). If only we could get that lucky on price nowadays!

If you have a low-pitch roof with asphalt shingles, I'll go ahead and bet that the lack of ice & water barrier has as much as anything to do with the fact that your roof sheathing is soft/rotting. That's 100% sound advice for you to install that before you put down new shingles. Also, as far as your cost is concerned, you should see if you can argue with your insurance to make them pay for the cost of ice & water barrier on all the roof edges and valleys - having ice & water barrier installed at roof edges and valleys has been standard of practice in the roofing industry for probably 25+ years at this point, and for them to not cover it is total bush league.

 

But yeah, with a low pitch roof, the granular surface of the shingles can actually work against you by retaining moisture due to surface tension, and then that causes significantly more rapid breakdown of the bitumen in the shingles. Snow and ice damming is an even bigger factor though. You'll end up collecting moisture on your roof, and likely under your shingles almost every time you have snow accumulation, and the gradual melt of the snow and ice are absolutely bound to get under the shingles of a low pitch roof. This diagram hopefully helps explain ice damming a little.

 

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That's an awesome visual. It really makes me understand the issue.

I have a sunroof addition to my house that the previous owners put in. The roof isn't sloped enough and I have issues and am getting it replaced. I am getting an "EPDM rubber membrane roof" installed over that section. Do you know anything about this type of roof?

Thanks for the advice @Colonels_Wear_Blue ! Our house is on the small size...less than 1200 square feet easily. Single level, sort of, as our living room/dining room is "sunken" compared to the rest of the house. We have the paperwork from the original installation (back in 2000), including the receipt. I don't remember the capacity on it off-hand, but it was a Rheem that the previous owner paid $1500 for (including the unit, set up, and installation of a cold-air return). If only we could get that lucky on price nowadays!

If you're at 1200 square feet, you could go with a 2-1/2 ton unit, comfortably. I wouldn't go a whole lot smaller than that though. You want to maintain a certain amount of air flow, regardless of square footage, just because you need to have enough "push" in your HVAC system to move air in and out of the various rooms in your house. A small AC unit might be capable of cooling enough air to control the temperature of a 1200 foot space, by definition...but in reality, you probably want to have more than the minimum requirement of air movement and cooling capacity just because obstructions in that space (walls, furniture, people) slow down the movement of the air.

Think of a box fan. Turn that fan on high in a wide open bedroom without any furniture in it, and you'll probably be able to feel air moving around in the whole bedroom. But if you stick that same box fan on high in the same bedroom with a chest of drawers sitting 3 feet away from the front of it, chances are you aren't still going to feel air moving everywhere in the room.

TL;DR - I'd go with at least a 2-1/2 ton AC unit.

That's an awesome visual. It really makes me understand the issue.

 

I have a sunroof addition to my house that the previous owners put in. The roof isn't sloped enough and I have issues and am getting it replaced. I am getting an "EPDM rubber membrane roof" installed over that section. Do you know anything about this type of roof?

Absolutely.

EPDM is exactly the right thing to use in that application. EPDM is "ethylene propylene diene terpolymer"...or basically...rubber. People don't like to use it as much when it comes to residential construction because it's not as aesthetically attractive as asphalt shingles. It gets glued down to your roof and is as durable as anything. In a sun-room situation, you probably should see about having your roofer install foam ISO board insulation (polyisocyanurate) under the EDPM as well. Sun-rooms generally end up being warmer than the rest of the house because of the abundance of windows, and especially when it comes to sun-room additions, which oftentimes aren't conditioned as well by the HVAC system that was original to the house. That makes for lots of potential for heat transfer through the roof system in the sun-room, and that creates more potential for roofing issues. EPDM is the obvious first step in helping address that situation, but adding a layer of foam ISO board under the EPDM is even more ideal.