Ref Bashing

[Clyde]

I'm not a coach or ref but let's see how I do:

 

1. You have no violation unless his right foot was his pivot.

 

2. No violation. You only have to have one foot inbounds.

 

3. It is a violation (over and back).

 

4. You have nothing. Play on.

 

I'm not an official but I believe you got 2, 3, and 4 correct.

 

I'm pretty sure 1 would be a backcourt violation.

 

However, you've earned the right in my book to at least question officials occasionally. Nice work.

[CCHS_Dad]

Maybe coaches should take a test before the season to determine if they are qualified to argue rules with the officials.

 

1. A1 picks the ball up in the backcourt at the center line.The ball still has backcourt status. A1 steps with his right foot into the front court. He then pulls it back and touches the backcourt. Anything?

 

2. A1 is out of bounds under his basket. A deflected ball comes his way. He steps in with one foot but the other foot has not touched inbounds - its still in the air. He touches the ball. Anything?

 

3. The ball has front court status for Team A. B1 deflects the pass from A1. The ball bounces off of the hand of A1 and goes to the backcourt where A1 is the first to touch it. Anything?

 

4. A1 is shooting a layup. B1 jumps up in an attempt to block the shot and slaps the backboard. The ball does not go in. Anything?

 

If a coach can answer all 4 correctly, he's given a green badge to wear which indicates he is smart enough to question some calls.

 

Anyone?

 

1. No violation - remember it is both feet and the ball

2. Violation - to establish your position on the floor takes both feet inbounds

3. Violation - over and back

4. Judgement call by the official, severity and a judgement of the shot block attempt play a role.

[Clyde]

1. No violation - remember it is both feet and the ball

2. Violation - to establish your position on the floor takes both feet inbounds

3. Violation - over and back

4. Judgement call by the official, severity and a judgement of the shot block attempt play a role.

 

1. Not true. The 3 points only pertains to dribblers.

2. Not true. No such rule exists. You're inbounds if you one foot is touching inbounds and the other is not touch out of bounds.

3. Correct

4. The only thing the official looks for is intent. If he thinks it was a legitimate shot block attempt, regardless of how hard he hits the board, its nothing.

[madman]

1. Not true. The 3 points only pertains to dribblers.

2. Not true. No such rule exists. You're inbounds if you one foot is touching inbounds and the other is not touch out of bounds.

3. Correct

4. The only thing the official looks for is intent. If he thinks it was a legitimate shot block attempt, regardless of how hard he hits the board, its nothing.

 

Wrong. The 3 points do not only pertain to dribblers. Rule 4.4.1: A ball which in in contact with a player or with the court is in backcourt if either the ball or the player is touching the backcourt. Straight from the casebook: 4.4.1 Situation: As Team A is advancing the ball from its backcourt toward its frontcourt, A1 passes the ball to A2. A2 catches the ball while both feet are on the floor - with one foot on either side of the division line. A2 lifts the foot which is in the frontcourt and puts it on the floor in the backcourt. Ruling: when A2 lifts the foot which is in the frontcourt and places it down in the backcourt, the location of the ball has not changed. The ball is still in the backcourt and no violation has occurred. The offensive player can put one foot over the mid-court as many times as he wants as long as his pivot foot and the ball is in the backcourt.

You are correct on the other three. 3 out of 4 ain't bad. You've earned the right to question official's calls.

[Clyde]

Wrong. The 3 points do not only pertain to dribblers. .

 

The 3 points absolutely only apply to a dribbler.

 

However, you are correct that it is not a backcourt violation as I originally thought it was. If any part of a non-dribbling player who has control of the ball is in the backcourt (my example) then the ball is considered backcourt.

 

Nice work on your part. Very nice.

[madman]

The 3 points absolutely only apply to a dribbler.

 

However, you are correct that it is not a backcourt violation as I originally thought it was. If any part of a non-dribbling player who has control of the ball is in the backcourt (my example) then the ball is considered backcourt.

 

Nice work on your part. Very nice.

 

Let's just consider both of us as being qualified to question calls. :thumb::thumb:

[Clyde]

Let's just consider both of us as being qualified to question calls. :thumb::thumb:

 

It doesn't matter if you and I question calls from the stands. The problem is when coaches question calls without knowing the rules and IMO its the vast majority of the coaches that do not know the intricacies of the rulebook.

[redcrossave]

It doesn't matter if you and I question calls from the stands. The problem is when coaches question calls without knowing the rules and IMO its the vast majority of the coaches that do not know the intricacies of the rulebook.

 

You brought the point up and you were wrong, Madman nice use of your handy rule book you never know when your going to get in a basketball rules violation discussion. The point is most refs are bad because they think they are more important than the game. Coaches are not given the benefit of being innocent when it comes to referees, I actually heard a refree tell a coach he was not a very good coach in a summer league game this year. I am on a tangent here, who said coaches get paid to coach in the summer. That is news to me, I know a lot of coaches and not one of them has ever said they picked up a summer basketball check. Summer league or regular season a referee is paid to do a job if he does it poorly your just supposed to live with it. I think not.

[atm10]

You brought the point up and you were wrong, Madman nice use of your handy rule book you never know when your going to get in a basketball rules violation discussion. The point is most refs are bad because they think they are more important than the game. Coaches are not given the benefit of being innocent when it comes to referees, I actually heard a refree tell a coach he was not a very good coach in a summer league game this year. I am on a tangent here, who said coaches get paid to coach in the summer. That is news to me, I know a lot of coaches and not one of them has ever said they picked up a summer basketball check. Summer league or regular season a referee is paid to do a job if he does it poorly your just supposed to live with it. I think not.

 

What I never understand is that much of what people percieve as a poor job comes from a judgment call that happens in a split second. It is the referee's judgement. It is a different story if there is a missed rule, but block/charges, traveling, push from behind, it is all judgement. I've seen many ballgames that according to people on BGP had awful referees when I thought they did a nice job, again it's peoples judgement.

[Under the Lights]

What I never understand is that much of what people percieve as a poor job comes from a judgment call that happens in a split second. It is the referee's judgement. It is a different story if there is a missed rule, but block/charges, traveling, push from behind, it is all judgement. I've seen many ballgames that according to people on BGP had awful referees when I thought they did a nice job, again it's peoples judgement.

 

Just depends on what side of the stands you sit on.

[True blue (and gold)]

You brought the point up and you were wrong, Madman nice use of your handy rule book you never know when your going to get in a basketball rules violation discussion. The point is most refs are bad because they think they are more important than the game. Coaches are not given the benefit of being innocent when it comes to referees, I actually heard a refree tell a coach he was not a very good coach in a summer league game this year. I am on a tangent here, who said coaches get paid to coach in the summer. That is news to me, I know a lot of coaches and not one of them has ever said they picked up a summer basketball check. Summer league or regular season a referee is paid to do a job if he does it poorly your just supposed to live with it. I think not.

 

Coaches get a salary stipend to perform the job of coach. This is like saying that they don't get paid for practices. The coach determines what he/she needs to do to prepare their team for the season (regular and post season). If this includes summer leagues, then they are getting paid for going to those events.

[greendevil]

1. Not true. The 3 points only pertains to dribblers.

2. Not true. No such rule exists. You're inbounds if you one foot is touching inbounds and the other is not touch out of bounds.

3. Correct

4. The only thing the official looks for is intent. If he thinks it was a legitimate shot block attempt, regardless of how hard he hits the board, its nothing.

 

I'm not going to get fancy enough to look up something in the rulebook, however, I venture to say that regardless of whetehr it is a legitimate shot block attempt, if the force of the slap against the backboard affects whether the ball goes in or not it could be goaltending....

[madman]

I'm not going to get fancy enough to look up something in the rulebook, however, I venture to say that regardless of whetehr it is a legitimate shot block attempt, if the force of the slap against the backboard affects whether the ball goes in or not it could be goaltending....

 

It would be a technical foul (not goaltending). Rule 10-3-5-b: Player technical - intentionally slapping or striking the backboard or causing the ring to vibrate while a try or tap is in flight or is touching the backboard or is in the basket or in the cylinder above the basket.

[steelcurtain]

Coaches get a salary stipend to perform the job of coach. This is like saying that they don't get paid for practices. The coach determines what he/she needs to do to prepare their team for the season (regular and post season). If this includes summer leagues, then they are getting paid for going to those events.

 

Yes, you are correct but when you break down the amount of hours it takes to be successful and then divide it by your stipend, coaches are making sweatshop wages. I understand most coaches don't do it for the money, its a vocation like one of the posters said about most referees. I think what red cross is trying to say is that it is a way more lucrative venture to be a referee than a coach. Knowing that referee's are making more money and putting in a fourth of the hours is frustrating and you expect them to know the rules and preform their duties.

[True blue (and gold)]

Yes, you are correct but when you break down the amount of hours it takes to be successful and then divide it by your stipend, coaches are making sweatshop wages. I understand most coaches don't do it for the money, its a vocation like one of the posters said about most referees. I think what red cross is trying to say is that it is a way more lucrative venture to be a referee than a coach. Knowing that referee's are making more money and putting in a fourth of the hours is frustrating and you expect them to know the rules and preform their duties.

 

No doubt and I hope that is didn't come across as I was dissing on coaches. When all is said and done, they make much less then minimum wage for their time as a coach.