So, would it be okay for the players to not play as hard as they could during summer ball? With your implication here that it is summer ball and the coach shouldn't be coaching as hard.

 

If he/she coaches one way in the winter and a different, easier way in the summer, the players are going to pick up on that and take the mindset that this is summer ball and they don't have to play as hard either.

 

I talked to a varsity coach tonight about this subject. He stated that summer ball is the time to evaluate and teach the kids in preparation for the up-coming season. He said that he coaches the boys the same way (with intensity and in-your-face) but does not worry about the calls. He said that it is not a time to work the officials. He realized that they are taking time out of their busy schedules (yes, they may get paid some small amout but the coach is also getting paid to do what he/she is doing) and it is not about working the officials. He was grateful that he had officials (good or bad) and was very appreciative of their efforts. Maybe more coaches need to understand that summer ball scrimmages isn't about winning/losing or working (abusing) the officials. They should concentrate on evaluating, teaching and supporting those that are there to assist in this process.

Edited June 20, 200818 yr by madman
sentence structure

Maybe this should be in the HS Boys Forum, but I thought it would get more comments here.

 

Let me start by saying I am very vocal and critical of officials when I think they deserve it. But I witnessed something last week that crossed a line in, IMO, and I wanted to see what everyone else thought.

 

While watching a summer b-ball game at West Carter HS, a ref made a questionable call. The head coach of one of the teams argued the call for about three minutes, at one point saying to the ref, "You don't know the rules. That is why you will always be calling JV games. You don't know the rules well enough to call a varsity game."

Up to that moment, I had respect for this coach. He has been a successful coach of HS girls in the 16th region, and just switched to the boys team this year. Maybe I'm being too critical of him, but I believe he really stepped over the line and showed poor sportsmanship to his players by his words and actions. I would like to add, I was waiting for the next game and did not have a vested interest in the game this happened.

 

I heard that last night this was put to shame and that doesn't even compare to what a coach done last night at Fairview camp, I hope someone was there and can tell this story, I would love to have seen this.

I talked to a varsity coach tonight about this subject. He stated that summer ball is the time to evaluate and teach the kids in preparation for the up-coming season. He said that he coaches the boys the same way (with intensity and in-your-face) but does not worry about the calls. He said that it is not a time to work the officials. He realized that they are taking time out of their busy schedules (yes, they may get paid some small amout but the coach is also getting paid to do what he/she is doing) and it is not about working the officials. He was grateful that he had officials (good or bad) and was very appreciative of their efforts. Maybe more coaches need to understand that summer ball scrimmages isn't about winning/losing or working (abusing) the officials. They should concentrate on evaluating, teaching and supporting those that are there to assist in this process.

 

Most coaches that I know take this approach. In many instances, you have kids that are moving up from JV to varsity, due to team change from graduation and just letting them get used to the different level of competition is important. Worrying about minor variations in rule interpretations or about a missed call here or there is really counterproductive at this time.

A coach questioning an official's knowledge of the rules is like an official questioning a coach going to zone. Neither should happen.

And I've got two words for the coach.....SUMMER BALL

 

I'll play the devils advocate here. I witnessed an "ugly" situation last week where a situation at a "camp" game almost got out of control, and one of the coaches went onto the court to keep peace due to an official not making a call creating a large "pileup" in the middle of the court. Here it is.....loose ball, numerous opportunities to blow the whistle and call a jump ball, but nothing from the official resulting in a 9 or 10 player pileup with tempers flaring. Smart thing to do was simply blow the whistle (even if it became an inadvertant whistle), which would have resulted in play stoppage as opposed to a fumble like situation in which someone potentially could have been injured. In that case, shame on the official for NOT recognizing the importance or lack thereof of a "camp" game, and allowing a potential bad situation. I commend the coach for approaching the official in this situation and schooling him on the purpose of camps, which is certainly not to get kids hurt needlessly. My point......I respect the officials, but they too need to realize their role in summer camp games and not "official" league games.

I talked to a varsity coach tonight about this subject. He stated that summer ball is the time to evaluate and teach the kids in preparation for the up-coming season. He said that he coaches the boys the same way (with intensity and in-your-face) but does not worry about the calls. He said that it is not a time to work the officials. He realized that they are taking time out of their busy schedules (yes, they may get paid some small amout but the coach is also getting paid to do what he/she is doing) and it is not about working the officials. He was grateful that he had officials (good or bad) and was very appreciative of their efforts. Maybe more coaches need to understand that summer ball scrimmages isn't about winning/losing or working (abusing) the officials. They should concentrate on evaluating, teaching and supporting those that are there to assist in this process.

 

Sounds like this coach has his ducks in a row.:thumb:

And I would be surprised if the official made over $20 for doing the game.

I'll play the devils advocate here. I witnessed an "ugly" situation last week where a situation at a "camp" game almost got out of control, and one of the coaches went onto the court to keep peace due to an official not making a call creating a large "pileup" in the middle of the court. Here it is.....loose ball, numerous opportunities to blow the whistle and call a jump ball, but nothing from the official resulting in a 9 or 10 player pileup with tempers flaring. Smart thing to do was simply blow the whistle (even if it became an inadvertant whistle), which would have resulted in play stoppage as opposed to a fumble like situation in which someone potentially could have been injured. In that case, shame on the official for NOT recognizing the importance or lack thereof of a "camp" game, and allowing a potential bad situation. I commend the coach for approaching the official in this situation and schooling him on the purpose of camps, which is certainly not to get kids hurt needlessly. My point......I respect the officials, but they too need to realize their role in summer camp games and not "official" league games.

 

 

Shame on him/her indeed. Just because it is a summer game doesn't mean you can just jog up and down the floor and not blow the whistle.

If it is a vocation, I'm sure the schools will gladly accept a $75 donation to the betterment of the school district and the referee's reward can be the enjoyment of good classy basketball.

 

Hence the reason I posted the definition of the word, as in "it can be professional or voluntary" or "carried out more for altruistic benefit than income". As another poster mentioned to you, show me a boss that talks to his employees the way some coaches talk to officials and I'll show you an employee with a grievance to be filed.

 

Listen, there are plenty of places to make a buck, very few officials do it SOLELY for the money. Yes, it is nice to be compensated for your time, but there are many ways to do so that don't involve having to listen to someone cry and complain for two hours.

 

Finally, there are a good many memorial tournaments where the officials DO donate their paycheck back to the organization.

Let me start this off by saying I don't want to be a referee, but that doesn't mean that they are above being criticized. There are alot of jobs that people choose to do, for whatever reason, that I would not wish on anyone....The fact still remains that they chose to become a referee. If they blow calls and make mistakes they should have to deal with criticism, if they can't handle that they chose the wrong secondary job or vocation. If a coach makes a mistake in a game often times the entire knowledgable general public of a town, or the entire BGP family, calls him or her out after games. What is the difference between that and criticizing a referee's call?

 

Just because it happens doesn't make it right. My question is, what is the purpose of doing so? I've always wondered this. How does "calling out" a coach or berating an official help the KIDS?

 

The answer.......it doesn't......

 

The difference in between your perspective and mine is I see people (officals, coaches) that are in it for the kids. You see it as a business. When either one becomes a full time job for the persons involved then your argument is perfectly legitimate.

THere are times in the summer league that the ref is wrong.

 

Game tonight, elementary age. Kid is straddling the line during a free throw. I politely and quietly ask the official, since he was standing 5 feet from me, if that was going to be a violation.

 

He laughed at me and told me to chill it was summer league.

 

I told him he was right it was summer league and a time for instruction. If he didn't call it, when would the kid learn????

 

Call the violation, point it out to the child on where he should be and let the kid learn.

 

Instead the ref no calls it and the kid went home thinking it was okay for him to stand straddle the hash marks during a free throw.

 

I think the refs get themselves into trouble when they don't call a summer league game like they do a regular season game. The coaches and players are there, supposedly playing their hardes to improve but when the officiating is allowing them to play in manners they will not be able to play in the winter time, where has the learning occurred?

 

And before some smart alec tells me to don a whistle, I will be refereeing 6 games tomorrow, 3 or 4 on Monday and possibly a couple on Tuesday.:D:lol::flame:

Shame on him/her indeed. Just because it is a summer game doesn't mean you can just jog up and down the floor and not blow the whistle.

 

Some do it during the winter games.:flame::flame::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Not to mention any names.

Just because it happens doesn't make it right. My question is, what is the purpose of doing so? I've always wondered this. How does "calling out" a coach or berating an official help the KIDS?

 

The answer.......it doesn't......

 

The difference in between your perspective and mine is I see people (officals, coaches) that are in it for the kids. You see it as a business. When either one becomes a full time job for the persons involved then your argument is perfectly legitimate.

 

You are right it is about the kids. It is not easy helping a 15 year old kid understand why a ref doesn't know or understand the rules. Players respond to all kinds of different stimulus. Some players will completely shut it down if they feel a referee is singling them out or is picking on them. Coaches can keep them from shutting it down some times by sticking up for them by questioning calls. Players definitely don't understand bad officiating and it will sometimes get to a player and after a 10-15 day road trip it will also get under the skin of any coach.

Hence the reason I posted the definition of the word, as in "it can be professional or voluntary" or "carried out more for altruistic benefit than income". As another poster mentioned to you, show me a boss that talks to his employees the way some coaches talk to officials and I'll show you an employee with a grievance to be filed.

 

Listen, there are plenty of places to make a buck, very few officials do it SOLELY for the money. Yes, it is nice to be compensated for your time, but there are many ways to do so that don't involve having to listen to someone cry and complain for two hours.

Finally, there are a good many memorial tournaments where the officials DO donate their paycheck back to the organization.

 

I totally understand what your saying....But if the guy took the job for whatever reason he has to know what he is getting into. You show me a coach that has never questioned a call: some do it very respectfully, others not so respectfully. It doesn't matter to me whetther you do it for the money or just to be involved in a game that you love: Know the rules, Enforce the rules, and control the game.:thumb:

....But if the guy took the job for whatever reason he has to know what he is getting into. Know the rules, Enforce the rules, and control the game.:thumb:

 

I can relate these statements to coaching as well............ "Know the game, know your kids, teach the game and set an example for your kids and the school, represent the school and community with class". Some coaches do a good job of this and some do not .

 

Let the coaches coach thier kids and the officials call the game, both are going to make mistakes. Show me one of either that hasn't.

I can relate these statements to coaching as well............ "Know the game, know your kids, teach the game and set an example for your kids and the school, represent the school and community with class". Some coaches do a good job of this and some do not .

 

Let the coaches coach thier kids and the officials call the game, both are going to make mistakes. Show me one of either that hasn't.

 

All true statements.

I didn't read the whole thread, but to me, the biggest problem is that it is summer ball. I don't have a problem when someone says something that is true. JMO...