FLDS raid and aftermath

[HHSDad]

The more I hear about the FLDS raid and everthing that's happened since, the less comfortable I feel about what's happened. Warren Jeffs was obviously a pig and there may have been a couple of other similar characters involved.

 

Personally, I have no issue with polygamy, and neither does the Bible.

 

However, the accusatorial phone call has not been substantitate and is now believed to be a hoax. In fact, the caller is believed to be in custody.

 

I believe the Texas law was changed after the sect moved there raising the age of consent for marriage from 14 to 16,

 

I also strongly disagree with separating 400 kids from their parents and putting them in foster care. Many will end up in group homes. They will be eaten alive.

 

I really feel that this is somewhat of an attack on a religion that is different. I also don't like the implication that government knows better than we do as to what's best for our children.

[KyFans11]

The more I hear about the FLDS raid and everthing that's happened since, the less comfortable I feel about what's happened. Warren Jeffs was obviously a pig and there may have been a couple of other similar characters involved.

 

Personally, I have no issue with polygamy, and neither does the Bible.

 

However, the accusatorial phone call has not been substantitate and is now believed to be a hoax. In fact, the caller is believed to be in custody.

 

I believe the Texas law was changed after the sect moved there raising the age of consent for marriage from 14 to 16,

 

I also strongly disagree with separating 400 kids from their parents and putting them in foster care. Many will end up in group homes. They will be eaten alive.

 

I really feel that this is somewhat of an attack on a religion that is different. I also don't like the implication that government knows better than we do as to what's best for our children.

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

I thought it was all bad from the beginning. Texas has a history of with this type of stuff.

I agree totally. And yes I think the Warrens guy probably is a pig. But thing is none of it is yet to be proven! Even the accusation of him arranging a marriage to a younger woman has yet to be proved.

 

I too feel really sorry for all those children. And I also believe it is an attack on their religion because they are different.

However... if polygamy is against the law, then their marriages aren't really polygamous. The rest are live in(s) or nearby with children.

 

We keep hearing accusations of 13 year olds that have had children, but they have yet to find one.

 

I think it is wrong that they can carry the Name of their church but throw Fundametalist in front of it.

People that don't know the difference will get these people mixed up with the actual Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[True blue (and gold)]

I can pretty much agree with all you have said. It has bothered me from the beginning.

[shooter]

I'm with you. At first I gave the benefit of the doubt to the authorities but the more I hear the more uneasy I am with the situation. I agree that there very easily could have been abuse going on. However, I don't believe that all 400 children have been mistreated or that all the mothers of these children were underage or forced into marriages against their wishes. Therefore, it's quite likely that literally hundreds of children are victims of an injustice perpetrated on them by the state.

[gchs_uk9]

Therefore, it's quite likely that literally hundreds of children are victims of an injustice perpetrated on them by the state.

 

400+ lawsuits already in the works.

[Hasbeen]

I can pretty much agree with all you have said. It has bothered me from the beginning.

 

 

:thumb:Some of the statements made by the District Attorney's office have really disturbed me. It's a complicated and confusing situation. You want the children protected but the way it has gone down sure smells of religious persecution.

[Hearsay]

This particular event should scare a parent more than any previous state-sponsored event, and is the most notorious act of state-sponsored strongarm since Waco. This has already resurrected the militia movement to some extent.

[AcesFull]

I agree with all of the above comments.

[HT721]

I'm ok with it honestly, these kids and their parents have done nothing but lie since the raid about whose kid is whose. If they were all upfront about family ties and what not we could have already figured out which kids were in abusive families and which were not and returned those that were in the non-abusive families. However, the non-abusive families lying and helping the abusive ones cover up is what is causing all the hold up here.

[AcesFull]

I'm ok with it honestly, these kids and their parents have done nothing but lie since the raid about whose kid is whose. If they were all upfront about family ties and what not we could have already figured out which kids were in abusive families and which were not and returned those that were in the non-abusive families. However, the non-abusive families lying and helping the abusive ones cover up is what is causing all the hold up here.

So, the government was not sure who the suspects were, so it rounded up an entire community of 400, separated children from their parents while they investigate charges that may have been made as a hoax.

 

Would you be okay if somebody reported child abuse in your neighborhood and placed your kids in protective custody while they determined if the charges were true, would you have any objections? (Of course you would.)

[HT721]

So, the government was not sure who the suspects were, so it rounded up an entire community of 400, separated children from their parents while they investigate charges that may have been made as a hoax.

 

Would you be okay if somebody reported child abuse in your neighborhood and placed your kids in protective custody while they determined if the charges were true, would you have any objections? (Of course you would.)

 

I would but, I also understand you can't take child abuse lightly and if they came in and said "ok tell us which children are yours and we will know if you have been abusing them," and I responded with "well, I'm not really sure which children are mine" or " I don't have to tell you anything" then I can't expect the government to leave every child within a 10 mile radius that might be mine alone.

[AcesFull]

I would but, I also understand you can't take child abuse lightly and if they came in and said "ok tell us which children are yours and we will know if you have been abusing them," and I responded with "well, I'm not really sure which children are mine" or " I don't have to tell you anything" then I can't expect the government to leave every child within a 10 mile radius that might be mine alone.

As Americans, we have the legal right to presumption of innocence and so do our neighbors. Does the government take children away from single mothers and deny welfare benefits to families until the mothers identify the biological fathers of their children? Do they round up men living near single mothers and demand DNA samples to match fathers to their children?

 

Unless there are specific and credible allegations of criminal wrongdoing against individuals who were living in the compound, the government has no right to separate children from the parents while they conduct a fishing expedition for evidence. If the raid was conducted based on a phony accusation, then the government needs to reunite the families, profusely apologize to them, and hope that the American citizens who have been persecuted do not sue.

[Hearsay]

It has much less to do with presumption of innoncence than it does with investigatory ethics. If you have a single complaint of child abuse, show up at the door with an officer or two and make an identity of the complainant. You do not go in Waco-style and level the place.

[HT721]

As Americans, we have the legal right to presumption of innocence and so do our neighbors. Does the government take children away from single mothers and deny welfare benefits to families until the mothers identify the biological fathers of their children? Do they round up men living near single mothers and demand DNA samples to match fathers to their children?

 

Unless there are specific and credible allegations of criminal wrongdoing against individuals who were living in the compound, the government has no right to separate children from the parents while they conduct a fishing expedition for evidence. If the raid was conducted based on a phony accusation, then the government needs to reunite the families, profusely apologize to them, and hope that the American citizens who have been persecuted do not sue.

 

Was it really phony though? I've heard on the news several times they've found several women under the legal age pregnant and have proof that several more have had children.

 

The call that started it may have not been from someone on the inside but they have found abuse, thats what seems to be lost in all this to me.

Also, if these families would just help themselves and cooperate this mess wouldn't be nearly as bad and would be over. At the time of the raid the local police didn't know the call was a hoax and the call did lead to credible evidence of abuse. The innocent families in this community have just made themselves seem guilty by refusing to cooperate. If they would cooperate and identify their children they would most likely get them back if their children hadn't been abused. But by lying and changing their stories the police have no idea whose children are whose and therefore don't know what parents to punish for neglect and abuse.

[AcesFull]

Was it really phony though? I've heard on the news several times they've found several women under the legal age pregnant and have proof that several more have had children.

 

The call that started it may have not been from someone on the inside but they have found abuse, thats what seems to be lost in all this to me.

Also, if these families would just help themselves and cooperate this mess wouldn't be nearly as bad and would be over. At the time of the raid the local police didn't know the call was a hoax and the call did lead to credible evidence of abuse. The innocent families in this community have just made themselves seem guilty by refusing to cooperate. If they would cooperate and identify their children they would most likely get them back if their children hadn't been abused. But by lying and changing their stories the police have no idea whose children are whose and therefore don't know what parents to punish for neglect and abuse.

Suppose you are a young, ambitious district attorney aspiring to a much higher office. You buy a few throw away cell phones (i.e., untraceable phones) with cash from Wal-Mart and then have some close acquaintance call in anonymous tips to allow you to get your foot in the door on some potentially career changing investigations. Do you see the danger of allowing the government to act upon unsubstantiated tips?

 

The Fourth Amendment protects all Americans against unreasonable searches and the warrant in the FLDS case was based on hearsay evidence provided by a phone caller who has not been found.

 

The FLDS raid was a mass kidnapping, IMO, and the Texas government needs to be held accountable for their actions.