Dropping out of district play

[futurecoach]

5 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

Like I said, it's not the right decision for every team that is struggling. And the things you mention like kids leaving for other schools or choosing not to play, are already happening to those teams. You said it before...kids and parents aren't stupid. The teams that are or would be considering this option already are struggling to find something to play for (at least how you define "something to play for") 

Where we disagree on apparently is I think those numbers get even worse if drop out of district play and even more players start going elsewhere. 

[barrel]

1 hour ago, futurecoach said:

Where we disagree on apparently is I think those numbers get even worse if drop out of district play and even more players start going elsewhere. 

Which teams that have dropped out of district play have had their numbers hurt by doing so? 
 

There are a lot of coaches that have gotten district wins for the first time in a long time that either ended up fired within a year or so or did not see an improvement in numbers or support. 

[futurecoach]

20 minutes ago, barrel said:

Which teams that have dropped out of district play have had their numbers hurt by doing so? 
 

There are a lot of coaches that have gotten district wins for the first time in a long time that either ended up fired within a year or so or did not see an improvement in numbers or support. 

I’ll be honest I don’t know all the specific teams that have dropped out of district play. Which programs have dropped out of district play seen their programs and numbers get better when playing out of district? 
 

Also I’m truly asking which coaches are you speaking of that got fired shortly after winning their first district game in a long time? 

[barrel]

I would have to go through the realignments over the years where they publish who are opting out of district play. 
 

As far as getting fired after a district win goes. One of the coaches I know the team won a district time for the first time in 15 years. Beat a 5A team for the first time in 15 years. Won their way into the playoffs for the first time in over 15 years. 

[futurecoach]

13 minutes ago, barrel said:

I would have to go through the realignments over the years where they publish who are opting out of district play. 
 

As far as getting fired after a district win goes. One of the coaches I know the team won a district time for the first time in 15 years. Beat a 5A team for the first time in 15 years. Won their way into the playoffs for the first time in over 15 years. 

Which coach and which school was that?

[New Colonel]

Focus on getting as many wins as possible.  That's what gets numbers up.  Not going 1-9 with your only win being a district win and making the playoffs.

Look, you can go 0-10 in some rare cases and still make the playoffs in some Districts..... so big deal, you made the playoffs..... you think that's going to increase your roster numbers?  

Dropping out of district and winning maybe 3, 4, or heck even 5 would be much more beneficial for your program than winning 0, 1 or 2 and making the playoffs because it's so watered down.  

Kids want to win.  Simply ask them. Ask them if they'd rather win 1 game, make the playoffs,  and get beat down 60-0 in first round..... or would they rather win 3+ games.  I promise you the vast majority would rather win 3+ games.

[futurecoach]

4 minutes ago, New Colonel said:

Focus on getting as many wins as possible.  That's what gets numbers up.  Not going 1-9 with your only win being a district win and making the playoffs.

Look, you can go 0-10 in some rare cases and still make the playoffs in some Districts..... so big deal, you made the playoffs..... you think that's going to increase your roster numbers?  

Dropping out of district and winning maybe 3, 4, or heck even 5 would be much more beneficial for your program than winning 0, 1 or 2 and making the playoffs because it's so watered down.  

Kids want to win.  Simply ask them. Ask them if they'd rather win 1 game, make the playoffs,  and get beat down 60-0 in first round..... or would they rather win 3+ games.  I promise you the vast majority would rather win 3+ games.

Then fill you non district schedule with a bunch of winnable games. Some of you are acting like the whole 10 games is against your district. When the fact is at most there are usually only two teams in your district that may be head and shoulders way above you. So if you go 1 and 9 with only one district win. Then well maybe you need to change your non district schedule then to get more wins in non district, since you went winless in non disrict. Which if you are already going winless in non district, then dropping out of district doesn’t help you either. 
 

If teams are already automatically making the playoffs. Then well that means they are in a district with just 3 other teams. So that 7 games against teams in non district. So, this whole conversation comes down to 2 or 3 games. So just schedule down in your non district for those 6 to 7 games then to help stack wins to build confidence back up. 
 

 

[New Colonel]

45 minutes ago, futurecoach said:

Then fill you non district schedule with a bunch of winnable games. Some of you are acting like the whole 10 games is against your district. When the fact is at most there are usually only two teams in your district that may be head and shoulders way above you. So if you go 1 and 9 with only one district win. Then well maybe you need to change your non district schedule then to get more wins in non district, since you went winless in non disrict. Which if you are already going winless in non district, then dropping out of district doesn’t help you either. 
 

If teams are already automatically making the playoffs. Then well that means they are in a district with just 3 other teams. So that 7 games against teams in non district. So, this whole conversation comes down to 2 or 3 games. So just schedule down in your non district for those 6 to 7 games then to help stack wins to build confidence back up. 
 

 

I can get behind this.  Teams definitely need to schedule better.

[New Colonel]

I think one thing needs to be stated clearly here..... Playoffs in Kentucky are WAY broken and simply making the playoffs should NOT be the goal of any team..... PERIOD.  Making the playoffs in Kentucky is about as low of a bar as it gets (unless you're Indiana).

 

I've done some looking at last year's numbers to prove my point, I double checked them but still could be slightly off, so if I goofed slightly, someone please correct me. 

 

I believe there are 222 schools playing football according to KHSAA.

 

There are 6 classes, with 32 teams each making the playoffs (Exceptions for the 31 teams in 1A and 3A ).  That’s 190 teams out of 222 making the playoffs.  You have over an 85% chance of making the playoffs in Kentucky.  Like I stated it’s not that difficult.

 

In 2023 across all classes….

 

4 teams won ZERO games that made the playoffs

9 teams won only 1 game that made the playoffs

15 teams won only 2 games that made the playoffs

15 teams won only 3 games that made the playoffs

15 teams won only 4 games that made the playoffs.

 

So, out of 190 playoff teams, 58 had losing records.  30.5% of your teams had losing records in the KY playoff system.  

 

In 2023….. 34 teams were 5-5 and made the playoffs (I didn’t count teams that were 5-4).  So, out of 190 playoff teams, over 48% of your playoff teams didn’t even have a winning season. Let that sink in.  Only about half of the entire state’s playoff teams had winning records.  And there are people that think making it to the playoffs is going to “bring in numbers.”  

 

It’s really, really bad at the lower levels where in both 1A and 2A Brackets You had only 12 teams that had a winning record in each bracket…… TWELVE!  12 out of 31 and 12 out of 32

 

I’m really surprised that way more teams don’t opt out of District play just so they can hopefully win more games.  Winning games increases rosters…. Simply making Kentucky’s ridiculous “playoff” system doesn’t really help any program in any way since over 85% of teams make the post season.

[futurecoach]

1 hour ago, New Colonel said:

I think one thing needs to be stated clearly here..... Playoffs in Kentucky are WAY broken and simply making the playoffs should NOT be the goal of any team..... PERIOD.  Making the playoffs in Kentucky is about as low of a bar as it gets (unless you're Indiana).

 

I've done some looking at last year's numbers to prove my point, I double checked them but still could be slightly off, so if I goofed slightly, someone please correct me. 

 

I believe there are 222 schools playing football according to KHSAA.

 

There are 6 classes, with 32 teams each making the playoffs (Exceptions for the 31 teams in 1A and 3A ).  That’s 190 teams out of 222 making the playoffs.  You have over an 85% chance of making the playoffs in Kentucky.  Like I stated it’s not that difficult.

 

In 2023 across all classes….

 

4 teams won ZERO games that made the playoffs

9 teams won only 1 game that made the playoffs

15 teams won only 2 games that made the playoffs

15 teams won only 3 games that made the playoffs

15 teams won only 4 games that made the playoffs.

 

So, out of 190 playoff teams, 58 had losing records.  30.5% of your teams had losing records in the KY playoff system.  

 

In 2023….. 34 teams were 5-5 and made the playoffs (I didn’t count teams that were 5-4).  So, out of 190 playoff teams, over 48% of your playoff teams didn’t even have a winning season. Let that sink in.  Only about half of the entire state’s playoff teams had winning records.  And there are people that think making it to the playoffs is going to “bring in numbers.”  

 

It’s really, really bad at the lower levels where in both 1A and 2A Brackets You had only 12 teams that had a winning record in each bracket…… TWELVE!  12 out of 31 and 12 out of 32

 

I’m really surprised that way more teams don’t opt out of District play just so they can hopefully win more games.  Winning games increases rosters…. Simply making Kentucky’s ridiculous “playoff” system doesn’t really help any program in any way since over 85% of teams make the post season

 

Which to answer your question on why more teams don’t opt out, is because usually at most it may just be two games a team would be running away from. Since usually at most only two teams in district that may be head and shoulders better than you. So no need to opt out. Plus as I have mentioned, the schools may believe just like I do. That opting out would hurt the program more than help and hurt numbers too. 
 

I can definitely get on board with those that want to completely get rid of districts all together though. 

[Calico Jack]

8 hours ago, futurecoach said:

 

Which to answer your question on why more teams don’t opt out, is because usually at most it may just be two games a team would be running away from. Since usually at most only two teams in district that may be head and shoulders better than you. So no need to opt out. Plus as I have mentioned, the schools may believe just like I do. That opting out would hurt the program more than help and hurt numbers too. 
 

I can definitely get on board with those that want to completely get rid of districts all together though. 

Tell it.

[En Fuego Hombre]

My thought is that it is better for very weak programs to opt out under the current system.  That said, the system should change.  Maybe implement a Harbin ratings system or similar program and let that system determine the strongest teams in each class. The playoffs would include only the top 8-12 teams in each class.   The KHSAA participation trophy mentality is the problem here.    

[ChiefSmoke]

My good friend, Coach David Gay, from Grant County, shared the following:

 

Dropping out of the district is a last ditch option to salvage and rebuild your program. There are a few cases in the past where it’s been a good idea and helped some programs get back on their competitive feet. Lawrence County under Billy Goldsmith is the most successful case that comes to mind. More times than not, though, I see a lot of teams do this and it doesn’t translate into competitive improvement in the program. I like the idea of doing away with districts and requiring teams to schedule so many regional games to qualify for post season. This gives everyone the flexibility they need to schedule based on where their program is and what their needs are. It’s still not perfect but it’s light years ahead of where we are now with districts. 

[barrel]

When do teams have have to say they are dropping out of district play?