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1 minute ago, colonel-fan said:

For what's it worth, I say do it like Indiana. 8 regular season games. Let everybody in. You don't even have to play district games, make your schedule (hard or easy) that builds your program. Blind draw for districts. Then you could continue to use RPI after second round. 

In the past I was a little chill on the Indiana format but the way Kentucky has evolved it sounds way better. 

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This isn't an issue I'm super passionate about, as there are pros and cons to expanding and contracting the postseason format, but I don't love the current structure. If we have six classes, restrict

The good news is that there will be a slight improvement when they return to cross districting next year. The problem with the current structure is that you typically should not expect the lower seed

If we keep doing what we are doing... at least cross district.... which starts for 2022. If not... Daniel Hopkins plan is great.   Or..... a great alternative idea is that the 1 & 2 seed

21 minutes ago, colonel-fan said:

For what's it worth, I say do it like Indiana. 8 regular season games. Let everybody in. You don't even have to play district games, make your schedule (hard or easy) that builds your program. Blind draw for districts. Then you could continue to use RPI after second round. 

I’m fine with this except the blind draw. 

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1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

@nkypete

As a Holy Cross supporter, I am interested in your perspective.

What are your thoughts on this? Did the playoff win over Lloyd in round 1 make it worthwhile to be in the playoffs despite the lopsided loss last night?

Would your view be different if you had faced Beechwood in round 1?

@Voice of ReasonI'm glad you are asking that question, because I was about to reply on my own.  After the game last night, long after Beechwood had broken up their huddle at their end of the field, the Holy Cross coaches (and I, even though I'm not an official coach) were still speaking to the boys about the lessons of life.  There were 11 seniors (many in tears, of course) who were very glad that they had one more game to strap on the equipment and put on the Indians uniform, regardless of the result.  We talked about success and that failure is a stepping stone in a process (not the opposite of success).  We talked that quitting was the true opposite of success.  We reminded them that they gave their all and did not quit.  We told them life can be messy sometimes and that the lessons learned being on a football team can be very helpful later in life.  When those seniors graduate in the spring, they will have a piece of paper that will allow them to move along in their individual journeys.  

We also congratulated them on a very good season.  Holy Cross won 4 games.  They beat two district teams (one in the regular season and one in the playoffs avenging an earlier loss to the same team).  We beat a Ludlow team on their field in an exciting back and forth game in a monsoon.  The Indians haven't had a year like this since 2016 when they reached the 2A semi-finals and were a couple yards away from advancing to the finals.  These boys have a lot to be proud of.

The win last week against Lloyd was very satisfying (a #3 beating a #2).  If we hadn't beaten Newport (our first district win since 2016), we would have been a #4 playing Beechwood in the first round.  In regards to life lessons, that wouldn't have changed a thing!  We still wanted to play the game regardless of outcome.  But the guys can remember that they were rewarded for putting in the effort to win when they did in order to advance as far as they did.  That means something.  So....to answer the questions.  Yes, it was worth it.  All this talk about limiting the number of teams in the playoffs.  If there were the case, that would have been the rules.  But the opportunity to have the same life lessons would not have been.  Let the boys play!

By the way, Holy Cross knew that Beechwood was explosive and likes to score quickly.  We knew that the only chance we had was to shorten the game by taking as much time as possible off the clock between plays.  Run the ball...a lot.  Try to put hits on Beechwood early to try to get turnovers.  Then, who knows.  Obviously, that didn't turn out like what HC wanted.  But it was the strategy.  Good luck to the Tigers as they advance to the next round. 

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1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:

I’m fine with this except the blind draw. 

There's no perfect way. For instance in 5A, the top 6 teams in the CalPreps ratings are still playing. Along with the 16th and 20th ranked teams. I think the Indiana model works as well as any. And the teams that are going to struggle, only struggle in 9 games (8 regular season + 1 playoff) versus struggling for 11 games (10 regular season games + 1 playoff). And with an 8 game regular season, you could do the finals over Thanksgiving weekend which, I think, is nicer than playing the finals the first week of December.

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7 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Thanks for sharing that info.

Does that matter? Even in round 3 we know there are going to be several running clock games. We know most of the favorites are going to win. Should we just start with a final four? I put this in another thread last night and will post here:

2020 4A semi finals Boyle County 55 Hopkinsville 0 .... too many team in the playoffs?

2020 6A semi finals Male 49 Dunbar 6 .... too many teams in playoffs?

2020 5A regional championship Bowling Green 55 North Bullitt 7 ... ?

2020 3A regional championship Belfry 42 Bell County 0

2020 3A regional championship Ashland 42 Fleming County 0

2020 2A semi finals Lexington Christian 48 Murray 13

2020 1A Championship game Paintsville 38 Kentucky Country Day 7

 

So what is the goal of the playoffs? Is it more competition and experiences for young people in athletics? Or do we only care about finding a champion and want every game to be a battle along the way? 

I will add this. Last night Beechwood had a running clock over Holy Cross in the first half. BUT ... the week before Holy Cross won a playoff game. The Holy Cross players were excited about winning that playoff game last week. That playoff win was an excting, fun, memorable moment for Holy Cross. Should they be denied that moment? If anyone says yes, tell me why? Why do you want to take that away from that team and its fans?

Mostly to me it again showcases why the cross-district approach that they will bring back next year is at least the proper approach in the current playoff system.  It is just extremely unlikely that there are going to be upsets when playing against teams in your own district. 

Across six classes, of the 48 teams that entered as top seed in their district, 42 advanced to the region final round.  Scott, the only three seed to advance, didn't have to beat the top seed in their district, as Harrison County had already pulled an upset.  Harrison County was the only four seed in the state to advance even that far.  The other five top seeds that lost, had won their first matchup with the teams that beat them in the district final by an average of 4.4 points - none by more than eight - showing that those games were close to begin with.  Simply put, in the six class system, if you already won your top seed in the district, you are unlikely to fail to advance to the region final in this system.  There's a lot more that can be created by mixing up the matchups with a partner district, where we see a lot more potential for upsets.  And it also doesn't punish stronger,  deeper districts.

To answer your question (Or do we only care about finding a champion and want every game to be a battle along the way? ), for me, a spectator, I care about the games being a battle if at all possible.  The experience for the athletes is the season itself, and for those who earned a playoff berth, the experience of that.  Whenever we talk about the experiences for young people, I don't know why we think it adds so much to their experience that they got one, maybe two extra games over what they had already.  Especially if that extra game is some shellacking that they traveled some distance to play.  I'm sure there are some that loved having just a bit more time.  I think there are some who hated that. 

Ultimately, I've been pretty consistent in my take on what I'd be looking for in the playoffs.  If we are to stick with the abysmal six class system (and it is clear the KHSAA refuses to change that), I would prefer that we have either the top two teams in each district go to the postseason while expanding to an 11 game season (as it was pre-1990 in the old four class sytem), or take the top three teams and give the district top seed a bye.  Cross-district bracketing will likely provide a couple more four seed upsets, but we simply do not have enough four seeds advancing to continue to make this worthwhile.  It is a pointless endeavor.  What I'd really like is to get back to the four class system that was not broken TO BEGIN WITH, and keep the top four teams going to the postseason, because in a four class system, you had to actually win a game or two to make it in the first place.

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Simple solution. Give the #4 seed teams the option to not play round one. Or give them the option to not play once every two years. The down side is lost revenue for the 1 seed by not having a game. Maybe the 4 seed pays a fee to the 1 seed if they opt out?

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7 hours ago, nkypete said:

@Voice of ReasonI'm glad you are asking that question, because I was about to reply on my own.  After the game last night, long after Beechwood had broken up their huddle at their end of the field, the Holy Cross coaches (and I, even though I'm not an official coach) were still speaking to the boys about the lessons of life.  There were 11 seniors (many in tears, of course) who were very glad that they had one more game to strap on the equipment and put on the Indians uniform, regardless of the result.  We talked about success and that failure is a stepping stone in a process (not the opposite of success).  We talked that quitting was the true opposite of success.  We reminded them that they gave their all and did not quit.  We told them life can be messy sometimes and that the lessons learned being on a football team can be very helpful later in life.  When those seniors graduate in the spring, they will have a piece of paper that will allow them to move along in their individual journeys.  

We also congratulated them on a very good season.  Holy Cross won 4 games.  They beat two district teams (one in the regular season and one in the playoffs avenging an earlier loss to the same team).  We beat a Ludlow team on their field in an exciting back and forth game in a monsoon.  The Indians haven't had a year like this since 2016 when they reached the 2A semi-finals and were a couple yards away from advancing to the finals.  These boys have a lot to be proud of.

The win last week against Lloyd was very satisfying (a #3 beating a #2).  If we hadn't beaten Newport (our first district win since 2016), we would have been a #4 playing Beechwood in the first round.  In regards to life lessons, that wouldn't have changed a thing!  We still wanted to play the game regardless of outcome.  But the guys can remember that they were rewarded for putting in the effort to win when they did in order to advance as far as they did.  That means something.  So....to answer the questions.  Yes, it was worth it.  All this talk about limiting the number of teams in the playoffs.  If there were the case, that would have been the rules.  But the opportunity to have the same life lessons would not have been.  Let the boys play!

By the way, Holy Cross knew that Beechwood was explosive and likes to score quickly.  We knew that the only chance we had was to shorten the game by taking as much time as possible off the clock between plays.  Run the ball...a lot.  Try to put hits on Beechwood early to try to get turnovers.  Then, who knows.  Obviously, that didn't turn out like what HC wanted.  But it was the strategy.  Good luck to the Tigers as they advance to the next round. 

@nkypete is spot on.  As a parent of a senior on the team I would like to add another perspective.  The last four years have been rough.  The back story is HC graduated 25 kids off a 40 kid roster five years ago when they made the state semi finals.  They have struggled to rebuild.  My son had never been on a losing team before.  This year honestly was a disappointment.  At the beginning of the year we though we would have been competitive in a few more of our games.  They came back and beat Newport to avoid the 4 seed and Beechwood opening round and have a chance at the 2 seed and hosting a playoff game.  They  followed that up with a horrible loss to Lloyd making the Ludlow game another must win to avoid Beechwood in the three way tie RPI tie breaker.  They came from behind and did that.  They follwed that up with a strong performance against Lloyd to make the second round.  The playoff game is the only high school playoff game my son has ever won.  Was it worth it to get beat by Beechwood this week?  Absolutely. He had a week of feeling proud and accomplished.  This past week he knew it was a long shot but said "mom we are a covid outbreak away from having a chance to make a run at state". He tried to stay upbeat.  Did he cry after the game? sure but he didn't quit and got his 100th tackle on the season so he at least had that.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would love to see a reclassification... Have 4 public classes, and 2 private classes (big school little school). This would still give 6 classes throughout the state, but teams who are restricted to students from their districts wouldn't feel slighted they have to play the private schools who pull from anywhere and everywhere. Just doesn't seem right the private schools get to pull students from other counties and even other states, while the public schools would be in trouble for pulling a kid from same city but wrong district. Seems that is why you have so many common repeat champions and schools with really really good teams, (not always), but often fall short when going against the private power houses. JMO.....

 

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7 minutes ago, 859sports said:

I would love to see a reclassification... Have 4 public classes, and 2 private classes (big school little school). This would still give 6 classes throughout the state, but teams who are restricted to students from their districts wouldn't feel slighted they have to play the private schools who pull from anywhere and everywhere. Just doesn't seem right the private schools get to pull students from other counties and even other states, while the public schools would be in trouble for pulling a kid from same city but wrong district. Seems that is why you have so many common repeat champions and schools with really really good teams, (not always), but often fall short when going against the private power houses. JMO.....

 

The KHSAA rules are the same for every school.  Some schools choose to add additional restrictions on their own school district but again everyone the KHSAA rules are the same for every school. 

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12 minutes ago, 859sports said:

I would love to see a reclassification... Have 4 public classes, and 2 private classes (big school little school). This would still give 6 classes throughout the state, but teams who are restricted to students from their districts wouldn't feel slighted they have to play the private schools who pull from anywhere and everywhere. Just doesn't seem right the private schools get to pull students from other counties and even other states, while the public schools would be in trouble for pulling a kid from same city but wrong district. Seems that is why you have so many common repeat champions and schools with really really good teams, (not always), but often fall short when going against the private power houses. JMO.....

 

Would need to include public schools with open enrollment to private classification. Male would dominate largest public class. 

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58 minutes ago, 859sports said:

I would love to see a reclassification... Have 4 public classes, and 2 private classes (big school little school). This would still give 6 classes throughout the state, but teams who are restricted to students from their districts wouldn't feel slighted they have to play the private schools who pull from anywhere and everywhere. Just doesn't seem right the private schools get to pull students from other counties and even other states, while the public schools would be in trouble for pulling a kid from same city but wrong district. Seems that is why you have so many common repeat champions and schools with really really good teams, (not always), but often fall short when going against the private power houses. JMO.....

 

 

49 minutes ago, theguru said:

The KHSAA rules are the same for every school.  Some schools choose to add additional restrictions on their own school district but again everyone the KHSAA rules are the same for every school. 

Adding on to theguru's post, in KY public schools can pull from any district, any county, any state just like private schools. There is no advantage in the rules for private schools. If a public school does not allow out of district students, it is by their own choice.

In addition, let's head this off before it gets posted, independent school districts are public school districts - they just aren't county wide. Same rules for all.

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4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

Adding on to theguru's post, in KY public schools can pull from any district, any county, any state just like private schools. There is no advantage in the rules for private schools. If a public school does not allow out of district students, it is by their own choice.

In addition, let's head this off before it gets posted, independent school districts are public school districts - they just aren't county wide. Same rules for all.

Exactly on all points VoR, thanks.

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