Fired officer in George Floyd case arrested

[bugatti]

I pulled from about a dozen different articles from the usual suspects: LA Times, NY Times, CNN, Fox News, Daily Mirror, etc.

 

And I have seen your numbers, too. I am not sure some of the reporting understands the differences between complaints, discipline, reprimands, etc. or what if fully means. And if you are not in that world, the verbiage can be confusing.

[TheDeuce]

Same reason you can't get rid of crappy teachers.

 

This is why unions are stupid, IMO. Why can't we have unions that protect the good workers and not the bad ones?

[TheDeuce]

Let me start by saying I AM NOT justifying Chauvin "still (being) a cop," I just wanted to provide some context on how "complaints" work and the dynamics that go into it.

 

Complaints can be something egregious, but it can also be something minor as being late for work or a completely unfounded complaint. Not sure where CWB posted his info from, but I saw he had 17 complaints and 2 reprimands which is another way of saying disciplined. When an officer receives a complaint, it is investigated and either substantiated or unsubstantiated. If substantiated by the PD, the typical MO is for the Union to grieve it where it is negotiated down a level ("levels" meaning oral, written, suspension, demotion, and termination). Not exactly sure how MPD does it, but based on the numbers, my guess it is like anything else, it is probably something in-between. Looks as if MPD keeps records of any "complaint" (which is not required), so I suspect half of those are on the minor or unfounded level such as a caller saying "this officer was rude to me when I got a speeding ticket," the other half were more serious that were massaged by the Union. It is important to note Minnesota is a very pro-Union state.

 

I stand by my statement.

[bugatti]

This is why unions are stupid, IMO. Why can't we have unions that protect the good workers and not the bad ones?

 

That's a loaded question and probably deserves its own thread. Unions formed to protect workers from unfair labor practices, unsafe working conditions, etc. Something I think we can all agree is a good thing. One could argue there are enough regulatory controls in place now to cover their original intent. There are still multiple employer abuses which exist, so it is good to have a Union in that respect. But now they have become a de facto (legal) rep for any employer regulation or discipline administered, even if it is justified. It is fashionable to blame PDs or the employer for some of these issues, but it often has to do with having their hands legally tied by a Union contract.

[CincySportsFan]

The Union doesn't come into play unless disciplined is given to an officer. Not sure they would have much say on a how an investigation is to take place. They have their own Internal Affairs division that conducts investigations. PDs also hire out to other agencies if the situation warrants. For example this case going to the BCA.

 

I guess my use of the term union there at the end was perhaps, not the best choice of words. What I ultimately was trying to point out was that, for the most part, it appears that we are depending on the police to police themselves, which in and of itself lends itself to bad optics. From the outside it could easily appear as "taking care of each other".

[CincySportsFan]

It's not a bad idea but it's hard to keep everyone happy. There are a lot of frivolous complaints that are sorted out in literally a matter of minutes. However some folks will say that ANY complaint no matter how small, should go to a review panel and that's really not practical. If it's excessive force, someones rights being violated etc then yes I agree a review panel seems fitting. Some of the bigger departments across the country have procedures like this in place. It's certainly a balancing act though.

 

Agree on all points.