49 minutes ago, Bluegrasscard said:

The mask mandate is downright dangerous. 

They are ineffective in actual use in broad public settings.  That is more than obvious. 

The cause impact to general heath - impacting O2, heart rate and rhythm and respiratory rate as the body has to attempt overcome the restricted breathing.  This is especially true in increased activity.  and exertion. 

There are entity practicing medicine without a license.  This will be scary. if the push the mask mandate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kjL_E1H0XA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In absolutely no way is it obvious. That is baseless propaganda. As for the video, if you have pulmonary or cardiac issues, you shouldn’t be out in public anyway, so the mask wearing wouldn’t apply. 

28 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

In absolutely no way is it obvious. That is baseless propaganda. As for the video, if you have pulmonary or cardiac issues, you shouldn’t be out in public anyway, so the mask wearing wouldn’t apply. 

I don’t get this pseudo science that people are using to make the claim that masks are dangerous.  Am I really to believe that masks are so restrictive that they keep CO2 in and oxygen out, yet do nothing to prevent airborne droplets from escaping?  Are they uncomfortable and hot? Yes.  Are they are perfect barrier?  No.  But it’s better than nothing, and certainly limits airborne droplets from the wearer.  Fishermen have been wearing cloth gator masks all day forever and I’ve never read about one of them dropping dead from doing so.  And if a cloth mask is so deadly,  welding masks should be killing welders everyday.  There are 100 Amazon sort centers with a quarter of a million employees that have been wearing masks for 3 months up to 10 hours a day with no ill affects.  Can it really be dangerous to wear a mask a few times a week while you’re out and about?

11 hours ago, rjal said:

I would be interested to know what their baseline ICU/bed availability is in the summer high tourism season.  The hospital system I work in is often "at capacity" or has a "full ICU" and it has nothing to do with Covid.  It is tough to tell how bad it is not knowing all the info.

I agree.  Pre-COVID the ICU’s in the hospital where I work we’re almost always full, as were 

The ICU beds in our hospital have almost always been 100% full.  Pre-COVID, it was not unusual for patients to sit overnight in the ER waiting for beds to open.  That being said, the added burden of COVID patients would be taxing.  From another viewpoint, those patients who would normally go to an ICU following somewhat elective surgeries (heart valve replacements, non emergent cardiac bypass patients) would not be getting those surgeries, freeing up beds.

It is mind boggling how statistics can be skewed depending on the factors taken in.  However, I still can’t get New York out of my mind.  No way you can skew those refrigeration trucks for dead bodies.

7 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

I don’t get this pseudo science that people are using to make the claim that masks are dangerous.  Am I really to believe that masks are so restrictive that they keep CO2 in and oxygen out, yet do nothing to prevent airborne droplets from escaping?  Are they uncomfortable and hot? Yes.  Are they are perfect barrier?  No.  But it’s better than nothing, and certainly limits airborne droplets from the wearer.  Fishermen have been wearing cloth gator masks all day forever and I’ve never read about one of them dropping dead from doing so.  And if a cloth mask is so deadly,  welding masks should be killing welders everyday.  There are 100 Amazon sort centers with a quarter of a million employees that have been wearing masks for 3 months up to 10 hours a day with no ill affects.  Can it really be dangerous to wear a mask a few times a week while you’re out and about?

I agree 100%.  Got some lab work done a couple of weeks ago.  There was a very elderly gentleman there wearing his oxygen nasal cannula under his mask.  It can be done.

I work 12 hour shifts in a hospital.  I thought wearing a mask that long would drive me nuts, and initially it did a bit, but you get used to it.  It’s our new normal.

9 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

In absolutely no way is it obvious. That is baseless propaganda. As for the video, if you have pulmonary or cardiac issues, you shouldn’t be out in public anyway, so the mask wearing wouldn’t apply. 

So if you have asthma or paroxysmal atrial fibrillation you should never go out in public? 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

New requirements coming tomorrow.  I’d bet the farm a mask mandate is one of them.

 

I'd be shocked if it wasn't.  Seems like KY has always followed OH, just a day or two later.

13 minutes ago, Bluegrasscard said:

So if you have asthma or paroxysmal atrial fibrillation you should never go out in public? 

 

 

 

You're telling me that this people are going to have such ill affects from wearing a mask for 45 minutes while shopping at Kroger, or during the short time that they are talking to the hostess and waiting on a table at Applebee's? 

8 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

I don’t get this pseudo science that people are using to make the claim that masks are dangerous.  Am I really to believe that masks are so restrictive that they keep CO2 in and oxygen out, yet do nothing to prevent airborne droplets from escaping?  Are they uncomfortable and hot? Yes.  Are they are perfect barrier?  No.  But it’s better than nothing, and certainly limits airborne droplets from the wearer.  Fishermen have been wearing cloth gator masks all day forever and I’ve never read about one of them dropping dead from doing so.  And if a cloth mask is so deadly,  welding masks should be killing welders everyday.  There are 100 Amazon sort centers with a quarter of a million employees that have been wearing masks for 3 months up to 10 hours a day with no ill affects.  Can it really be dangerous to wear a mask a few times a week while you’re out and about?

With a little research you will find its not psuedo-science. 

Masks impact your cardio-pulmonary function to some extent for everyone.   To the extent they create a medical issue for a person will vary.   To say mask do not have ANY impact or risk is psuedo-science. 

People should consult a doctor if they are going to where a mask for any length of time - like at full shift work environment.  Wearing a mask has shown to definitely elevate heart rate during exercise when compared to no mask.   There is a video of woman doing her own "test" of this - actually she was testing O2 saturation.  The good news - her O2 did stay high.  The concerning part was that a surgical-style mask raised her heart rate from 115 to 150 and a cloth mask raised it to 160 (from the 115 no mask baseline).  That is significant.  She explains why that is likely happening CO2 is still building up and the body is trying eliminate it.  So the response - higher heart rate (to get more blood to the lungs) and higher and deeper respiratory rate to attempt to eliminate the CO2 in the blood. 

The point is masks have medical impacts - on everyone to some extent.  Using them, properly or improperly, should be a careful decision and one reviewed with a doctor. 

Reference - go to 9:05 and 9:34 for graphics of interest. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1akOam4n_k0

 

 

6 minutes ago, Bluegrasscard said:

So if you have asthma or paroxysmal atrial fibrillation you should never go out in public? 

 

 

 

Certainly a tough call.  However, Even the danger of wearing masks for people with conditions like asthma are being overstated.  Every guideline I’ve seen has been that if your asthma is well controlled, you shouldn’t have any issues with a mask.  Asthmatics compete in rigorous sports, and there are many that have competed at a high level.  In all my years of coaching multiple sports, I’ve probably coached several dozen asthmatics, and all have been able to do everything everyone else does with little if any accommodation.  I’ve even known asthmatics to voluntarily wear masks during allergy season to prevent possible problems. Wearing a mask for an hour while shopping shouldn’t be a huge problem for the average asthmatic.  If your asthma is severe, you were already likely making decisions as to where you can go and what you could do long before COVID.

Just now, MJAlltheWay24 said:

You're telling me that this people are going to have such ill affects from wearing a mask for 45 minutes while shopping at Kroger, or during the short time that they are talking to the hostess and waiting on a table at Applebee's? 

How about 8 hours in an office?

But masks can  have immediate impact on cardio-pulmonary function. 

9 minutes ago, Bluegrasscard said:

With a little research you will find its not psuedo-science. 

Masks impact your cardio-pulmonary function to some extent for everyone.   To the extent they create a medical issue for a person will vary.   To say mask do not have ANY impact or risk is psuedo-science. 

People should consult a doctor if they are going to where a mask for any length of time - like at full shift work environment.  Wearing a mask has shown to definitely elevate heart rate during exercise when compared to no mask.   There is a video of woman doing her own "test" of this - actually she was testing O2 saturation.  The good news - her O2 did stay high.  The concerning part was that a surgical-style mask raised her heart rate from 115 to 150 and a cloth mask raised it to 160 (from the 115 no mask baseline).  That is significant.  She explains why that is likely happening CO2 is still building up and the body is trying eliminate it.  So the response - higher heart rate (to get more blood to the lungs) and higher and deeper respiratory rate to attempt to eliminate the CO2 in the blood. 

The point is masks have medical impacts - on everyone to some extent.  Using them, properly or improperly, should be a careful decision and one reviewed with a doctor. 

Reference - go to 9:05 and 9:34 for graphics of interest. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1akOam4n_k0

 

 

Not to be flippant, but who is the author of this video, and is this really a controlled scientific experiment and one that you’d take to the bank as being foolproof?  I won’t deny that masks can and likely do have some impact. But much of that impact is related to comfort.  And let’s face it, many, many millions of people across this country and across the world are currently wearing and working in masks.  Has there even been one instance where a mask has caused anyone to be impacted to the point of being in danger or caused even minor harm?  I’m guessing it’s probably happened, but even if it has, it has to be exceedingly rare.

3 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Certainly a tough call.  However, Even the danger of wearing masks for people with conditions like asthma are being overstated.  Every guideline I’ve seen has been that if your asthma is well controlled, you shouldn’t have any issues with a mask.  Asthmatics compete in rigorous sports, and there are many that have competed at a high level.  In all my years of coaching multiple sports, I’ve probably coached several dozen asthmatics, and all have been able to do everything everyone else does with little if any accommodation.  I’ve even known asthmatics to voluntarily wear masks during allergy season to prevent possible problems. Wearing a mask for an hour while shopping shouldn’t be a huge problem for the average asthmatic.  If your asthma is severe, you were already likely making decisions as to where you can go and what you could do long before COVID.

I am overly familiar with both of the conditions in my reply. 

The heart and the lungs are so intertwined that impacting one artificially can definitely force negative impacts.  Not always, but sometimes is it always, and sometimes it can be a trigger an diagnosed issue.  

 

1 minute ago, rjs4470 said:

Not to be flippant, but who is the author of this video, and is this really a controlled scientific experiment?  I won’t deny that masks can and likely do have some impact. But much of that impact is related to comfort.  And let’s face it, many, many millions of people across this country and across the world are currently wearing and working in masks.  Has there even been one instance where a mask has caused anyone to be impacted to the point of being in danger or caused even minor harm?  I’m guessing it’s probably happened, but even if it has, it has to be exceedingly rare.

It is home made - its not a double blind study. 

But it points out - that even though she was 'testing' the O2 saturation, and yes - it did remain high, she cited the high heart rates and noted (properly) this is excess CO2 the body wants to eliminate. 

I have an O2/BPM monitor coming tomorrow.  Should be interesting.  Of course the Apple watch records heart rate.

The O2 has received a lot of press.  The elavated heart rate - less so.  And the reason for the elevated rate is notable. 

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

The mask mandate is downright dangerous. 

They are ineffective in actual use in broad public settings.  That is more than obvious. 

The cause impact to general heath - impacting O2, heart rate and rhythm and respiratory rate as the body has to attempt overcome the restricted breathing.  This is especially true in increased activity.  and exertion. 

There are entity practicing medicine without a license.  This will be scary. if the push the mask mandate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kjL_E1H0XA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is simply not true. 

38 minutes ago, Bluegrasscard said:

So if you have asthma or paroxysmal atrial fibrillation you should never go out in public? 

 

 

 

Considering those people are definitely in the high risk category for the virus, yeah they should probably not be going out.