For the UK fans that are not happy with Cal, who would you rather have? I am not a UK fan and find it laughable the criticism that Cal gets...

 

Maybe a subject for another thread but in all seriousness, as a UK fan, who would you want to coach UK if Cal left??

 

While I'm a Cal guy, I think that the problem most sane fans have is his stubbornness. Like him or not, he'll win or lose his way. Same problems carry over year to year, lack of change ups defensively, poor free throw shooting, poor 3 point shooting, etc.

 

Coach K, Pitino, Self, etc. reinvent themselves. Cal doesn't. UK is always in the hunt for the ring, so in all honesty it doesn't matter. Just perception. JMO though. Short of Coach K there is no obvious upgrade.

I guess we can say Cal has out coached Pitino the majority of his career then. Especially since Cal has been at UK? Pitino even lost to Cal in the tournament when Pitino had his defending National Champ squad back and UK having an injury to WCS.

 

Using Pitino as an example is poor considering how much Cal usually wins against him. As for Self apparently UK fans would hate Self. People are complaining about 1 title during Cals years so far. While Self has been at Kansas longer, has had a some players who stay longer like people say they want, yet I believe he has had only 1 title during his tenure at Kansas.

 

Pitino has had 3 or 4 year guys and KY guys on his roster and has been at UL longer and only has 1 title at UL. So basically we have 2 coaches at big programs who do all the things that people who complain wish Cal would do. Yet they only have one title at their schools and they have been there longer. So seems to me that these things people who Cal and UK would do doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to more titles. We can just look at Kansas and UL and their great coaches as an example of that.

 

And lots of early round exits for Kansas under Self. Also a double digit loss to 11 seed Virginia Commonwealth in the 2011 Elite 8 as a 1 seed.

How do you teach defense to kids that never had to play it in a short amount of time?

:thumb: As Al McGuire always said ... "the best thing about a freshman is they become a sophomore. With our case ... the worst thing about a freshman is they go to the NBA.

 

My question is how does Self get great players like Mason to stay around 4 years???

It would have sure been nice to have had a Ulis or Booker hang around a while, but I know that's impossible with their NBA dreams. Mason could be playing with them in the league right now but for some reason he decided to stay through his senior year......and help beat Kentucky a couple of times. :facepalm::idunno:

While I'm a Cal guy, I think that the problem most sane fans have is his stubbornness. Like him or not, he'll win or lose his way. Same problems carry over year to year, lack of change ups defensively, poor free throw shooting, poor 3 point shooting, etc.

 

Coach K, Pitino, Self, etc. reinvent themselves. Cal doesn't. UK is always in the hunt for the ring, so in all honesty it doesn't matter. Just perception. JMO though. Short of Coach K there is no obvious upgrade.

 

This.

I just want him to drop the stubbornness and shore up some things.

I guess it is better that this is happening now than later in the season. UK has to be careful though, they are slowly losing their NIT bid.

My question is how does Self get great players like Mason to stay around 4 years???

It would have sure been nice to have had a Ulis or Booker hang around a while, but I know that's impossible with their NBA dreams. Mason could be playing with them in the league right now but for some reason he decided to stay through his senior year......and help beat Kentucky a couple of times. :facepalm::idunno:

He gets them to stay 4 years because he recruits guys looking to stay 4 years. Not every highly ranked guy wants to go straight to the NBA. Cal gets those guys. Self has had a couple too with Embiid and Wiggins a few years ago. But Cal recruits on a much higher level. I wish he would spend more time developing the 4 year guys like Humphries, Mulder, Wynyard, etc. that only helps the program. But when you look at Frank Mason the perfect analogy to be is Isaiah Briscoe. Wasn't a great shooter when he got to school, but developed for 4 years and has become one of the best players in the country. I wish that would happen for Briscoe because he has D league lifer written all over him.

My question is how does Self get great players like Mason to stay around 4 years???

It would have sure been nice to have had a Ulis or Booker hang around a while, but I know that's impossible with their NBA dreams. Mason could be playing with them in the league right now but for some reason he decided to stay through his senior year......and help beat Kentucky a couple of times. :facepalm::idunno:

I have said the same thing at times. I think that Cal has created a lot of that himself in that he will tell a kid to go if he wants. At times it seems that he is pushing them to so he can get the next top kid to fit in that position the next season. Cal has the rep of being a semi pro team / NBA D League type coach in that he will take these kids that others may pass on bc they want them for more than just the one season. On one hand he has the best talent and the flip side of that is that Self has the best "teams". Cal does good in getting these prima dona kids to play team ball but most don't stick around more than the one year.

I have said over and over again that I would love to see the NBA go to requiring two years out of high school at the least before one can even make the move. The NFL has a three year out minimum, that would be even better.

I do know that a lot fans / fan bases of schools / teams that would probably love to be able to go on a site like this and complain about their players having "too much talent" that they leave early. BBN is spoiled, we want it all. I am one of them so I can say that. :lol2:

I guess we can say Cal has out coached Pitino the majority of his career then. Especially since Cal has been at UK? Pitino even lost to Cal in the tournament when Pitino had his defending National Champ squad back and UK having an injury to WCS.

 

Using Pitino as an example is poor considering how much Cal usually wins against him. As for Self apparently UK fans would hate Self. People are complaining about 1 title during Cals years so far. While Self has been at Kansas longer, has had a some players who stay longer like people say they want, yet I believe he has had only 1 title during his tenure at Kansas.

 

Pitino has had 3 or 4 year guys and KY guys on his roster and has been at UL longer and only has 1 title at UL. So basically we have 2 coaches at big programs who do all the things that people who complain wish Cal would do. Yet they only have one title at their schools and they have been there longer. So seems to me that these things people who Cal and UK would do doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to more titles. We can just look at Kansas and UL and their great coaches as an example of that.

 

 

Take the blue colored glasses off.

 

Cal is not in the same conversation as Pitino as far as game coach.

 

The knock on Pitino is he can't get one and dones. He still wins with what he has and hasn't been blown out against Cal with his great one and dones too many times.

 

Cal has the best players on the floor almost every time they step on the floor. You can't play up the draft success and not acknowledge that.

 

If you play that up, then you better be ready to admit that he gets beat an awful lot by teams with less talent........

I guess we can say Cal has out coached Pitino the majority of his career then. Especially since Cal has been at UK? Pitino even lost to Cal in the tournament when Pitino had his defending National Champ squad back and UK having an injury to WCS.

 

Using Pitino as an example is poor considering how much Cal usually wins against him. As for Self apparently UK fans would hate Self. People are complaining about 1 title during Cals years so far. While Self has been at Kansas longer, has had a some players who stay longer like people say they want, yet I believe he has had only 1 title during his tenure at Kansas.

 

Pitino has had 3 or 4 year guys and KY guys on his roster and has been at UL longer and only has 1 title at UL. So basically we have 2 coaches at big programs who do all the things that people who complain wish Cal would do. Yet they only have one title at their schools and they have been there longer. So seems to me that these things people who Cal and UK would do doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to more titles. We can just look at Kansas and UL and their great coaches as an example of that.

 

Both have one title each head to head in their bluegrass rivalry.

 

You can't excuse the Kansas loss when they had no capable big man.

 

It took Monk's 47 on a neutral court to beat UNC. He wouldn't score 47 in a rematch, then what?

 

Are we another lottery pick away again?

Take the blue colored glasses off.

 

Cal is not in the same conversation as Pitino as far as game coach.

 

The knock on Pitino is he can't get one and dones. He still wins with what he has and hasn't been blown out against Cal with his great one and dones too many times.

 

Cal has the best players on the floor almost every time they step on the floor. You can't play up the draft success and not acknowledge that.

 

If you play that up, then you better be ready to admit that he gets beat an awful lot by teams with less talent........

 

Blue colored glasses? You can't ask most when it comes to UK I am one of the more realistic UK fans there is.

 

Under Cal in 2011 that team has no business being a final four team. Yet with less talent they went out and beat the top seed in the tournament in Osu and the hottest team entering the tournament in UNC.

 

2014 that team as an 8 seed beats undefeated Wichita St. Beats Pitinos Defending national Champs squad who was hottest team entering the tournament. Beat the 2 seed Michigan and 1 seed Wisconsin.

 

Say what you want about Cal. A lot of years he does have one of the most talented teams. However 2 of his final fours here are UK came with teams that shouldn't have made the final four, but his coaching got them playing their best by then.

 

People the last 2 weeks have said they want more 3 to 4 year guys and KY boys like Pitino. People also complain about only 1 title in 8 years. Well Pitino does get those 3 to 4 year guys and KY guys and guess what he only has one title during his whole time at UL while consistently losing to Cal while Cal is at UK.

 

So people's arguments make no sense. They complain about wanting more titles. Then also say they would be happier with more 3 to 4 year guys. While the best 2 coaches in college basketball at getting 3 to 4 year guys still have only 1 title with their current teams while being there longer than Cal at UK. So seems to me there is no great answer to winning more titles. So be happy with what we have and hope they get it done.

Both have one title each head to head in their bluegrass rivalry.

 

You can't excuse the Kansas loss when they had no capable big man.

 

It took Monk's 47 on a neutral court to beat UNC. He wouldn't score 47 in a rematch, then what?

 

Are we another lottery pick away again?

 

Agreed and Cal has dominated Pitino head to head and in tournament. People say they want more titles and more 3 to 4 year guys. Well Pitino does exactly that. More 3 to 4 year guys, more KY boys and still only 1 title during his UL run while being there much longer at UL than Cal at UK. So doesn't seem to me that the 3 to 4 year guys and more KY guys get you anymore titles than Cal does.

 

Tell me this would UK fans rather have 1 title and more 3 to 4 year guys and losing to UL on a consistent basis and in the tournament twice. Or 1 title and consistently beating UL and being UL in the tournament twice. To me the answer is obvious.

Take the blue colored glasses off.

 

Cal is not in the same conversation as Pitino as far as game coach.

 

The knock on Pitino is he can't get one and dones. He still wins with what he has and hasn't been blown out against Cal with his great one and dones too many times.

 

Cal has the best players on the floor almost every time they step on the floor. You can't play up the draft success and not acknowledge that.

 

If you play that up, then you better be ready to admit that he gets beat an awful lot by teams with less talent........

 

You seem a bit salty.

They are missing a true (4) in my opinion. Playing the 3 guards almost always causes a mis-match problem. Briscoe on Hobbs vs. Tennessee, Jackson for Kansas, and UCLA of course. Those 3 games it was a glaring weakness. The UNC game was almost the same story as their 4 went nuts on us, but Monk was red hot.

When those kind of match ups happen Cal has to be willing to zone, if not they will be a in a hard fought game. The right match-ups they could be a final 4 team. One of the major issues I think for Duke is they have no PG. Missing key pieces for both of those teams, but both equally dangerous

I love the fact that Cal can't coach since he's only won one title in 7 years. Bill Self is so much better with his one title in 13 years. Cal has twice as many final fours than Self in just about half the time. But Self can really coach, way better than Cal. It's not like Self is recruiting a bunch of nobody's.