2017 Louisville Invitational Tournament

[Wireman]

Also Trinity did not get much from winning vs out of state teams. Last year teams got no points for playing out of state teams. They changed it this year to where I believe you got an equivalent of a win over a "C" level team. The argument is there is no real way to rate out of state teams. Fern Creek probably got more points for their three wins in the KOB vs "A" level teams than Trinity did. Like was mentioned before, ADs are given weekly SETH rankings that show the movement based on wins and losses. There is no real way to do this unless you get a selection committee and you will still have the same arguments. Past LIT using the lit ratings had the same arguments. At least with the SETH ranking the teams know where they stand when the season starts.

 

They could just use the state rankings.

[dawgs83]

They could just use the state rankings.

 

What state ranking are you going to use? I haven't seen one that ranks all the Louisville schools. Coaches in Louisville like the SETH ranking better than the lit rating. The complaints is how to rate out of state wins and how you start in the rankings. Trinity automatically will be an A team next year.

[Wireman]

What state ranking are you going to use? I haven't seen one that ranks all the Louisville schools. Coaches in Louisville like the SETH ranking better than the lit rating. The complaints is how to rate out of state wins and how you start in the rankings. Trinity automatically will be an A team next year.

 

They could use the common sense ratings.

 

They could also do a media poll and let them seed the tournament.

[thepeopleschamp]

The last thing they need to use is a media poll. Human beings have too many inherent biases. If Trinity truly is the best team, they will win the tournament anyway regardless of seed. Since Fern Creek and Trinity are 1-1 against each other this year, I can't seem to understand the outrage over seeding.

[BasketballJunkie3]

This is high school ball, not college where the resources are endless to gauge who should be ranked ahead of who. I don't see anything wrong with the way it's done...there is no perfect system, and there simply aren't enough media to properly do a media poll. Most HS coaches don't even care about the rankings or polls, or LIT seedings, or what have you...they'll tell you they just need to play the games and beat whoever is in front of them.

[Getslow]

I love this tournament. I hate that I'm going to be out of town for the quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals.

 

This has traditionally been my favorite basketball event of the year.

 

It's time to crown a city champ!

[Wireman]

The last thing they need to use is a media poll. Human beings have too many inherent biases. If Trinity truly is the best team, they will win the tournament anyway regardless of seed. Since Fern Creek and Trinity are 1-1 against each other this year, I can't seem to understand the outrage over seeding.

 

Then draw them out of a hat and deal with it. That way it's random and no one can call it for what it is.

[6thregionguy]

They could use the common sense ratings.

 

They could also do a media poll and let them seed the tournament.

 

The way they select now is much fairer. It takes politics almost completely out of the equations. The teams in the city are ranked based on how they finished last year in the SETH rankings at the end of the year. The top team being a 80.0 the last team being a 70.0. It then trickles down by .25 every team.

Example if the season ended today, the start of next season would look like

 

Fern creek 80.0

Trinity 79.75

Doss 79.5

Ballard 79.25

Every other team team

Brown 70.0

The top 1-7 teams are ranked as an A

Teams 8-14 B

Teams 15-22 C

Teams 23-29 D

Teams 30-36 E

 

You get more points for a road win and loss, less point for a home wins. Ever AD knows the formula and most coaches should also. You know where you are ranked before the season starts. As mention already in the post every week a new updated ranking is sent. Every few weeks a new state ranking is sent out also. (Now this is hard to rank every team in the state, but at least you know what they are) and much better than just a blanket every team is a C outside 6th and 7th region.

If you were to go by the LIT ranking a team can start out more than 60 points ahead of another team. No one knows the formula and was never released. A team could be horrible the year before and be in the 60’s with the LIT rankings then be 12-0 with wins over Dunbar and Christian county and be too far down to make up ground. This was a major flawed system and cannot be used.

If you allow a committee to make the selection then you have bias when schools start getting money for making it. (The gate is divided up amongst the field.), I do not know if its evenly or just the day you play. In all honesty we only complain about the team’s 18-22, those teams are not making a run and winning the LIT or at least have not to date.

 

Case in point someone brought up Collegiate should be in over Manual. So I looked at both teams

 

Collegiate

11-5

Wins over teams with winning record 2

Played 5 teams with winning record

Combine win loss of teams played 79-106

Avg record of teams played 4.9-6.6

Best win Beth Haven or Bethlehem

 

Manual

2-10

Wins over 1 team with winning record

Played 11 teams with winning record

Combine win lose of teams played 92-56

Avg record of teams played 7.6- 4.6

Best win Lex Sayre

 

Now you cannot tell who is better but the one thing that stands out is Manual as played a much tougher schedule, what would Collegiate have done against Manuals schedule?

best record 3-9

Worst record 1-11

Win

Portland Christian.

 

Maybe

Scott

Sayre

 

lose to

Trinity

Ballard

Waggener

Jtown

Oldham Co

Bryan Station

Central

Lafayette

Eastern

 

Manual playing Collegiate schedule

Worst 11-4

Best 14-1

Wins

Whitefield

Fort Knox

St. Francis

Bullitt Central

Shawnee

Hart Co.

Metcalfe Co.

Allen Co-Scottsville

Evangel

Beth haven

Bethlehem

 

Maybe

Desales

Western

CAL (1st round LIT game)

 

Lose

ST X

 

 

I give Collegiate credit for playing Western, Desales, and CAL. St. X is district game. If they were to win one of those games they are in. And lets be honest does a team with 2 wins need to be in? I don't think so.

 

The system is a lot better than it was and I like that it is just Louisville schools, just wish they would move it back to the Garden like it use to be.

[thepeopleschamp]

Then draw them out of a hat and deal with it. That way it's random and no one can call it for what it is.

 

Which is what?

 

Fern Creek has played a really nice schedule this year. I still don't see any justification for all the vitriol regarding the seeds. Fern Creek has an equally strong case. They are the only team to beat Christian Co. and South Oldham, they also own wins over Trinity, Ballard and Franklin-Simpson an 11-2 Dixie Heights team and Doss who is still really tough and a decent Chaminade Julienne team out of Ohio. Yes, Trinity won a nice tournament in Tennesee, but it wasn't the City of Palms or Beach Ball Classic. Also, I'm not saying Trinity doesn't have the same claim to the number 1 seed, the numbers bear out that as of this moment Fern Creek has the same claim and any statement other wise is just trying to fit an agenda.

[dawgs83]

They could use the common sense ratings.

 

They could also do a media poll and let them seed the tournament.

 

All of those will create the same arguments. Has all the media seen all the Louisville schools play? If not then You would have Jason Frakes basically picking the team. I think Trinity is #1 but can argue Fern Creek. They are 1-1 in head to head. Both games were close and went down to the end. Now that coaches know how the rankings are done, you could argue that they could base their schedules on it.

[gchs_uk9]

The way they select now is much fairer. It takes politics almost completely out of the equations. The teams in the city are ranked based on how they finished last year in the SETH rankings at the end of the year. The top team being a 80.0 the last team being a 70.0. It then trickles down by .25 every team.

Example if the season ended today, the start of next season would look like

 

Fern creek 80.0

Trinity 79.75

Doss 79.5

Ballard 79.25

Every other team team

Brown 70.0

The top 1-7 teams are ranked as an A

Teams 8-14 B

Teams 15-22 C

Teams 23-29 D

Teams 30-36 E

 

You get more points for a road win and loss, less point for a home wins. Ever AD knows the formula and most coaches should also. You know where you are ranked before the season starts. As mention already in the post every week a new updated ranking is sent. Every few weeks a new state ranking is sent out also. (Now this is hard to rank every team in the state, but at least you know what they are) and much better than just a blanket every team is a C outside 6th and 7th region.

If you were to go by the LIT ranking a team can start out more than 60 points ahead of another team. No one knows the formula and was never released. A team could be horrible the year before and be in the 60’s with the LIT rankings then be 12-0 with wins over Dunbar and Christian county and be too far down to make up ground. This was a major flawed system and cannot be used.

If you allow a committee to make the selection then you have bias when schools start getting money for making it. (The gate is divided up amongst the field.), I do not know if its evenly or just the day you play. In all honesty we only complain about the team’s 18-22, those teams are not making a run and winning the LIT or at least have not to date.

 

Case in point someone brought up Collegiate should be in over Manual. So I looked at both teams

 

Collegiate

11-5

Wins over teams with winning record 2

Played 5 teams with winning record

Combine win loss of teams played 79-106

Avg record of teams played 4.9-6.6

Best win Beth Haven or Bethlehem

 

Manual

2-10

Wins over 1 team with winning record

Played 11 teams with winning record

Combine win lose of teams played 92-56

Avg record of teams played 7.6- 4.6

Best win Lex Sayre

 

Now you cannot tell who is better but the one thing that stands out is Manual as played a much tougher schedule, what would Collegiate have done against Manuals schedule?

best record 3-9

Worst record 1-11

Win

Portland Christian.

 

Maybe

Scott

Sayre

 

lose to

Trinity

Ballard

Waggener

Jtown

Oldham Co

Bryan Station

Central

Lafayette

Eastern

 

Manual playing Collegiate schedule

Worst 11-4

Best 14-1

Wins

Whitefield

Fort Knox

St. Francis

Bullitt Central

Shawnee

Hart Co.

Metcalfe Co.

Allen Co-Scottsville

Evangel

Beth haven

Bethlehem

 

Maybe

Desales

Western

CAL (1st round LIT game)

 

Lose

ST X

 

 

I give Collegiate credit for playing Western, Desales, and CAL. St. X is district game. If they were to win one of those games they are in. And lets be honest does a team with 2 wins need to be in? I don't think so.

 

The system is a lot better than it was and I like that it is just Louisville schools, just wish they would move it back to the Garden like it use to be.

 

Looks like a thorough, easy to understand explanation of the process. I'm sure it won't be enough to convince some but I appreciate you putting it out in its simplicity. Thanks!

[Wireman]

Are the SETH rankings used for anything else or are they solely used for the LIT?

[dawgs83]

Are the SETH rankings used for anything else or are they solely used for the LIT?

 

Only the LIT tournament

[dawgs83]

Only for the boys LIT tournament. I don't think they even have one for the Girls. They still do it the old way using lit ratings and have out of county teams.

[gchs_uk9]

Are the SETH rankings used for anything else or are they solely used for the LIT?

 

They MAY be used to seed the 6th and 7th Region All A Classic tournaments. I know they're seeded but it might be the Lit ratings.