No.

Cal will leave on his own way before the ice gets too thin...

Cal will leave on his own way before the ice gets too thin...

 

This

It is pretty funny people take Cal's public recruiting pitch at face value. 90% of what he says is a recruiting sales pitch that he wants out in the media...

 

:thumb:

I think he has done a pretty good job thus far regarding competing for titles. I will expound on that point later.

 

 

 

Is that the standard that you are going to judge him by? Unless I'm mistaken, in the entire history of college basketball only one coach has ever won 3 titles in 4 years, no one else has even come close, and even then questions abound as to whether or not it was achieved without a little rule bending here and there. If we are going to have hypotheticals might as well make it a realistic option. I'll play along, let UK cut Cal loose, who are they going to bring in to get you these 3 titles in 4 years?

 

 

 

I'd suggest that he has won games. Quite a few games actually. Let's take a look at the coaches that have served the University of Kentucky and see just how Cal stacks up among his peers in the quest for winning games and championships:

 

1) Adolph Rupp - 41 seasons, 82.2% of games won, Sweet 16 or better 48.8%, Elite 8 or better 36.6%, Final Four or better 14.6%, National Champion 9.8%

 

2) Joe B Hall - 13 seasons, 74.8% of games won, Sweet 16 or better 61.5%, Elite 8 or better 46.2%, Final Four or better 23.1%, National Champion 7.7%

 

3) Eddie Sutton - 4 seasons, 69.3% of games won, Sweet 16 or better 50.0%, Elite 8 or better 25.0%

 

4) Rick Pitino - 8 seasons, 81.4% of games won, Sweet 16 or better 62.5%, Elite 8 or better 62.5%, Final Four or better 37.5%, National Champion 12.5%

 

5) Tubby Smith - 10 seasons, 76.0% of games won, Sweet 16 or better 60.0%, Elite 8 or better 40.0%, Final Four or better 10%, National Champion 10%

 

6) Billy Gillispie - 2 seasons, 59.7% of games won

 

7) John Calipari - 4 / 5 seasons, 80.9% of games won, Sweet 16 or better 75% / 60%, Elite 8 or better 75% / 60%, Final Four or better 50% / 40%, National Champion 25% / 20%

 

*The percentage show for Cal in 5 seasons is based upon the assumption that this years team fails to reach the Sweet 16. Any success beyond the 2nd round of the tournament would thus improve the percentages shown.

 

** Personally I really believe that had Noel not gone down when he did last season that the season might have had quite a different conclusion.

 

*** Please recall that Rick Pitino's 2nd team for the 90-91 season was ineligible for the NCAA tournament, however, this team finished the season at 22-6 and likely could have advanced to at least the Sweet 16 which would improve Pitino's percentages.

 

**** To be fair since I am pointing out that injuries have hurt Cal, Pitino very likely would have won back to back championships had Derek Anderson's ACL stayed intact.

 

Based upon the above, although the sample size of seasons for Cal is small, he has reached the Final 4 and won championships at UK with more frequency than any other coach at UK, and only Pitino reached Elite 8's with more frequency than Cal (assuming that this years team falls short of the Elite 8).

 

I'm not sure what other coach (who would realistically come to UK) is capable of doing what Cal is currently doing.

 

Great work.

 

For the record Rupp won 3 in 4 years. ('48, '49, '51)

 

Wooden did it.

 

That's it.

No.

 

I thought this off and on for awhile, I was ready to get rid of Cal and bring in another coach but after talking with some people and thinking it over, I've changed my ways about him. He probably does say something about the NBA when recruiting kids but in the end, it's the kid's choice, whether to stay in school or go pro. When your stock is high and you have a chance to make big $$$, you take it, you don't risk getting injured and your stock come crashing down. I really think that the only one's that are NBA ready or WCS and Randle, nbadraft.net agrees with him as they have just them two going pro from Kentucky.

Is Bill Self on thin ice? His one and done method isn't working. Kansas has lost 7 games, fire Self!

 

C'mon people

Is Bill Self on thin ice? His one and done method isn't working. Kansas has lost 7 games, fire Self!

 

C'mon people

 

But they're in the big 12 so it doesn't count...

But they're in the big 12 so it doesn't count...

 

A league that is so strong the same team wins it every year.

Cal is trying to win games at UK. He is bringing in the best talent he can recruit and coaching them as hard as he can every year. I believe every player and every team has improved during his time at UK under Cal. No, the ice is not getting thin. Irish Cat's stats on the UK coaches show Cal's method is winning games and winning them at a better level than any other UK coach.

 

As to choosing "3 NBA titles and 2 NBA players in the last 4 years", you do know that is impossible, right? It takes NBA talent to win NCAA titles. NBA talent does not guarantee you win a NCAA title, but no NBA talent virtually guarantees you won't win one.

No. I just hope Ulis is a real PG. That addition alone would change things dramatically.

This.

 

Cal has small forwards masquerading as guards this year. Lack of a talented (last year) or true point guard (this year) has been his biggest nemesis. It all starts with the PG. It's their job to run the show, keep everyone calm and involved, make other players better, break down defenses and distribute the ball to the right people, make shots and free throws, etc, etc, etc...

UK hasn't had that type player(s) the last two years. And they've struggled.

Last I checked I said I wouldn't want anyone else here coaching UK.

Now that we have our facts straight, try and address what my point was instead of going off on a tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with my position.

Now

Do you mind actually dealing with what the original post talked about and that is getting his priorities right and that is to coach this team, not get as many recruits as he can to the NBA.

 

Nice post by the way and I pretty much knew everything you posted while you avoided many other points I made.

 

Your right I didn't address your initial post, my response was addressing your post that I quoted. However, since you asked her it goes...

 

I've mentioned it before but now I wonder how many members of BBN are now starting to question Cal's ways.

 

He has always seemed more concerned with getting his recruits to the NBA than winning at Kentucky and the last 2 years have really shown some serious problems with recruiting only the one and done types. It's not every year you will recruit a true leader like Kid-gilchrest or Anthony Davis type of players, the last 2 years have shown how bad young teams in College can perform when they are only concerned with their future in the league.

 

Cal has said himself he is there to fulfill the kids dreams of getting to the NBA and he hates things such as the SEC tournament etc. Cal seems to forget he is coaching UK, not an NBA agent. His job is to win SEC tournaments and get to final 4's. He seems to forget the fans love the SEC tourneys etc.

 

I just wonder how much leeway Cal still has in Lexington.

 

If you really believe that Cal is evaluating his success or lack thereof based upon the number of pros that he produces each year, than I don't think that there is anything that I can say that will change your mind.

 

It is really obvious since Cal's arrival at UK that he has chosen what words he uses very carefully and that they are directed at an intended audience. That audience is NOT Big Blue Nation. Cal has proven to be a master at using the media to broadcast his message to the intended audience which is potential recruits. While many members of Big Blue Nation were upset with his declaration that the day he got five players drafted in the NBA 1st round was the best day in the history of the program, those words were said deliberately and with a purpose, and based upon the recruiting classes that he signed after that, it appears that the message was received by the target audience.

 

If you take a look at the numbers that I provided in my previous post, there really isn't that big of a difference between Tubby and Cal. Cal wins about 5% more of his games, and has gone farther in the NCAA tournament on average, but Tubby's teams never hit the lows that Cal has experienced. Tubby wasn't good enough so he had to go. Now Cal isn't doing good enough either? I think that it is unrealistic to expect any coach to consistently perform better than Cal has.

 

If you are against the one and done model, than you get players like Tubby had that are going to be around all 4 years. The problem is that with Tubby's teams they just didn't have the talent to go all the way, once they got deeper in the tournament. Tubby just couldn't seem to recruit players at the top talent level consistently enough. Sure you had a Prince or Bogans every now and then but those guys were more of an exception to the rule. Heck, a large portion of UK fans won't even give Tubby credit for getting to the one Final Four and Championship that he attained. Personally, I think that Tubby is a better in game coach than Cal, and maybe even Pitino, but he never had the talent that either of them had on their rosters.

 

Cal has the talent but with an extremely young team, it is just hard to get them to buy in and understand what is required in such a short period of time. Having experienced players on the roster helps, but it's not like all the guys who went one and done were recruited with the thought that they would only be around one year. In my opinion Darius Miller is comparable to a lot of the starters that Tubby had on his teams. But even Miller as a senior was not consistent. How many games did he just disappear. So you get better players like Wall and Cousins, they won't stick around, but their also not invisible on the court.

 

In my opinion Cal has done about as well as any other coach over the last 4 / 5 years. Sure last year looks bad, but I believe that had Noel not gotten hurt, the Cats likely reach the Sweet 16. Than none of this talk is even occurring. Heck, the talent is there to make a run this year. I wouldn't say it's likely that they do so, but this team could easily win a few games in the tournament, if they start playing for each other.

 

To me the bottom line, is that anybody who isn't satisfied with what Cal has achieved thus far, likely isn't going to be happy with anybody in that position. Your just not going to go to the Final Four every year. Too many good program in the NCAA for that to happen.

Great work.

 

For the record Rupp won 3 in 4 years. ('48, '49, '51)

 

Wooden did it.

 

That's it.

 

:ohbrother:

 

As a UK Fan the fact that I overlooked Rupp's accomplishment is rather embarrassing.

Even if he's on thin ice, he can walk on water so he's safe.

 

:laugh::laugh: That was pretty darn funny.

Apparently the city of Lexington, KY is currently experiencing an ice age.