Is Edward Snowden A Traitor?

[Jumper_Dad]

Again, you're incorrect. Edward Snowden is a household name because the documents he released have shown and prove the government is collecting and targeting Americans that have zero to do with terrorism and/or terrorist activities.

 

And they cannot get a warrant without suspicion and some merit.

 

With the massive spying apparatus the NSA has created through secrecy and lawlessness, they are doing everything in the example I gave but also everything you said a warrant allows. Except they don't have to go through a Judge to get a warrant.

 

You may be right, I've not seen anything saying they were looking at what I was doing but they could be. I did see that they have phone records of all calls going back to right after 9/11, what phone number called what other phone number not a recording of every call...If that really bother you than so be it.

 

As far as the NSA being built in secrecy and lawlessness, congress has approved pretty much every penny that has ever been sent to the NSA. It's not like no one knew they existed before Edward Snowden.

 

The entire 9/11 massacre happened due to a failure of intelligence and the ability to put the pieces together before it happened. If this were to prevent another 9/11 attack would it be worth them knowing how many times your wife calls your mother-in-law a week?

[BirdBrain]

After seeing the interview with Brian Williams and hearing Snowden talk about his background and his attempts to notify superiors, I have a changed opinion. I'm still not clear that he has released any sensitive information to any of our enemies. It appears he was attempting to stop the government from collecting data on everyone that amounted to the government spying on US citizens.

 

I get why he won't come back to the US, I wouldn't either. The government is going to try him and he has no chance. I don't think he's a patriot necessarily, but I think he rolled the dice and is on the hit list because he spoke out.

 

The more I read about this case, the more I think he just couldn't be silenced by the government and they want to put him away forever because of it.

[Jumper_Dad]

Once again, that's incorrect. Initially the NSA and the Federal Government lied again saying Edward Snowden didn't go through the proper channels that most whistleblowers go through.

 

He in fact did go to his superiors.

 

 

Snowden told interviewer Brian Williams: “I actually did go through channels, and that is documented. The NSA has records, they have copies of emails right now to their Office of General Counsel, to their oversight and compliance folks, from me raising concerns about the NSA’s interpretations of its legal authorities.

 

“The response, more or less, in bureaucratic language, was: ‘You should stop asking questions.'"

 

 

NSA releases email in dispute over Snowden 'internal whistleblowing' | World news | theguardian.com

 

 

Shortly after the interview, the NSA miraculously found the email he was talking about that prove his actions.

 

Once again you are wrong, I never said he didn't go to anyone. I said there were other ways he could have done it, he could have taken ONE document and walked into CBS, CNN, FOX or where ever and told his story and got it public...he did not have to take millions of documents and travel to Russia and China afterwards.

[Jumper_Dad]

I guess we'll have to just disagree on this...I think he is at the very least a weasel and at the most a traitor.

...But that is just my opinion.

[Jumper_Dad]

Where was the outrage for the NSA when these stories broke?

 

NSA uses ECHELON against US citizens ? The Register

 

https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/nsa-spying-americans-illegal

 

Three Major Telecom Companies Help US Government Spy on Millions of Americans | Democracy Now!

 

I'll go back and see if there were any threads about this back in 05-06 and see if there was a huge outrage.

[marvel]

You may be right, I've not seen anything saying they were looking at what I was doing but they could be. I did see that they have phone records of all calls going back to right after 9/11, what phone number called what other phone number not a recording of every call...If that really bother you than so be it.

 

As far as the NSA being built in secrecy and lawlessness, congress has approved pretty much every penny that has ever been sent to the NSA. It's not like no one knew they existed before Edward Snowden.

 

The entire 9/11 massacre happened due to a failure of intelligence and the ability to put the pieces together before it happened. If this were to prevent another 9/11 attack would it be worth them knowing how many times your wife calls your mother-in-law a week?

 

Congress was kept in the dark about a lot of the projects. They were also being lied to by James Clapper. So no, they didn't approve pretty much every penny.

 

And a resounding "no" to your last question. My life and nobody else's is sacred enough to justify a mass surveillance state. 9/11 is heartbreaking because thousands of innocent people lost their lives.

 

Mass surveillance on hundreds of millions is equally heartbreaking and troubling.

 

I don't subscribe to the belief that the 9/11 attackers killed us because they hated our freedoms, but if I did, I'd say they hate us a lot less after the attack.

Edited June 8, 2014 by marvel

[marvel]

Once again you are wrong, I never said he didn't go to anyone. I said there were other ways he could have done it, he could have taken ONE document and walked into CBS, CNN, FOX or where ever and told his story and got it public...he did not have to take millions of documents and travel to Russia and China afterwards.

 

I mean, that's essentially what he did. He just went to another news outlet. The Guardian.

 

You should listen to his interview when you get the chance. A lot of your questions will be answered.

[Jumper_Dad]

Congress was kept in the dark about a lot of the projects. They were also being lied to by James Clapper. So no, they didn't approve pretty much every penny.

 

Did no one in congress read a newspaper in 2005 or 2006, the entire issue was covered in great depth then...see just the three links I provided from back then. It's not like what NSA was doing wasn't out there for at least 6 years prior to Snowden

[marvel]

Did no one in congress read a newspaper in 2005 or 2006, the entire issue was covered in great depth then...see just the three links I provided from back then. It's not like what NSA was doing wasn't out there for at least 6 years prior to Snowden

 

If this was in the open and widely to considered as fact, why did James Clapper lie? Or is he just that inept and also in charge of the largest spy agency in the world?

[Jumper_Dad]

If this was in the open and widely to considered as fact, why did James Clapper lie? Or is he just that inept and also in charge of the largest spy agency in the world?

 

I don't know...Google NSA Spying and set results to return 2005-2007 and you will see that this wasn't a lot of new news. All of the Links from post #155 are from that time frame.

[Mitch Rapp]

I agree 100% that it is a slippery slope and could be misused very easily. You keep bringing up the President and the AG, did you trust the last President and AG? The NSA was collecting the same data then as they are now. While I do trust President Bush a lot more than the current administration the same stuff was going on then.

 

Getting back to Snowden, he could have been a whistle blower all he wanted WITHOUT STEALING TOP SECRET documents. There are other ways he could have proven what was going on without doing that.

I don't trust any president or any other federal official with this kind of information because if it is collected, then it will eventually be exploited.

 

I remember the hundreds of FBI dossiers on Republicans that Craig Livingstone obtained for the Clinton White House. It was widely believed by Republicans that Hillary Clinton made the decision to hire Livingstone but when questioned under oath, Livingstone testified that he could not recall who hired him (less than two years earlier).

 

Imagine how a President Hillary Clinton might abuse the kind of information that the NSA is collecting on American citizens. Imagine what kind of leverage a crooked Attorney General like Eric Holder might already be exerting over members of Congress.

 

Knowing what Snowden did about the extent of NSA surveillance, I can understand him not trusting anybody in Congress to be able to keep him safe, even if they wanted to do so. If I had been in his shoes, then I would have probably contacted somebody like Ted Cruz with the information but it is easy for me to say that than bet my life on it.

[PurplePride92]

I would also bet that if the current President was a Republican most would flop their opinion of Snowden. I'm actually shocked that Democrats are OK with what the NSA is doing and think Snowden was a traitor. Just like Republicans are now calling him a Patriot, if this had came out under the last administration Democrats who are for the most part calling Snowden a traitor, would be parading him on their shoulders through the streets for calling out the Bush Administrations Spying and declaring Snowden a Patriot!!!

 

Example:

2004 George W Bush President

NSA Employee leaks sensitive information

Republicans call the guy a Traitor

Democrats call the guy a Patriot for exposing NSA Spying

Jumper_Dad says he broke the law and should be arrested

 

2013 Barack Obama President

NSA Employee leaks sensitive information

Democrats call the guy a Traitor

Republicans call the guy a Patriot for exposing NSA Spying

Jumper_Dad says he broke the law and should be arrested

 

Why politicize it though? Who you vote for and identify with politically has nothing to do with this IMO. If we are going to politicize it go back through the thread and see who all is saying what. I seem to recall people from both sides that normally disagree actually agreeing with one another for a change in this one.

[PurplePride92]

I guess we'll have to just disagree on this...I think he is at the very least a weasel and at the most a traitor.

...But that is just my opinion.

 

 

He's a traitor. :thumb:

[Jumper_Dad]

Imagine how a President Hillary Clinton might abuse the kind of information that the NSA is collecting on American citizens. Imagine what kind of leverage a crooked Attorney General like Eric Holder might already be exerting over members of Congress.

.

I wouldn't trust her with any further than I could throw her.

[Mitch Rapp]

I guess we'll have to just disagree on this...I think he is at the very least a weasel and at the most a traitor.

...But that is just my opinion.

I agree and I feel the same way about Obama.