If you want to complain about my posts, it would be more appropriate to direct those complaints to me rather than taking a swipe at me in a post directed to somebody else.

 

I was simply explaining to Know It All that the point of my post was missed when that post was quoted. That post was made to you and you got my point when I made that point. If you call my commentary of your posts as taking a swipe at you then so be it. Was I wrong? Is everything you post not about Obama and his cronies and how awful they are? Is there anybody disagreeing with you when you make these posts about Obama? It's obvious you have a ton of knowledge about politics but those points get lost in your repetitive assault against Obama, his cronies and anyone who questions you. I think you'd be surprised at the folks who actually agree with you if you'd step off the Obama-hate gas pedal just a little. We may even get some well rounded discussion out of it.

When you're done whining about Obama being attacked by his opposition (just like every other President) let me know.

 

The NSA is collecting and storing my personal information without Congressional oversight and outside the legal bounds of the Executive Branch.

 

You may be uninformed, that doesn't mean everyone else is.

 

 

I'm not whining about Obama being attacked by his opposition. I'm trying to move the discussion past a repetitive conversation and agenda. Obama sucks. We get it. Can we get back to the topic at hand or do we want to talk about how Obama sucks some more?

 

 

Do you really think Congress cares? Seriously? You can call me uninformed until the cows come home but I'll never beleive any of the fat cats do anything more than lip service to all of us. The NSA is a talking point but even Congress isn't going to stop them. Or they can't stop them. Or they won't stop them. It's like I said earlier.....stop the guys in power from doing it. I'll wait. The guy who tried can't even come back to the USA. Yeah, that worked. Will the next Edward Snowden step up the plate? You're up to bat.

I was simply explaining to Know It All that the point of my post was missed when that post was quoted. That post was made to you and you got my point when I made that point. If you call my commnetary of your posts as taking a swipe at you then so be it. Was I wrong? Is everything you post not about Obama and his cronies and how awful they are? Is there anybody disagreeing with you when you make these posts about Obama? It's obvious you have a ton of knowledge about politics but those points get lost in your repetitive assault against Obama, his cronies and anyone who questions you. I think you'd be surprised at the folks who actually agree with you if you'd step off the Obama-hate gas pedal just a little. We may even get some well rounded discussion out of it.

I see Obama and his crooked administration as the biggest long-term threat facing this country today. So, please don't hold out hope that my opinion of him will moderate or that I will tone down my criticism.

 

BTW, I started a thread to discuss the attempts by the Republican Party to rig the nomination process in favor of one of the moderates but it did not get any responses. Obama is an extremely polarizing figure but he could not have done nearly as much damage without the incompetence of Boehner and McConnell.

 

You will soon see that I hold Hillary Clinton in as low regard as Obama. I see Jeb Bush and Chris Christie as only slightly better candidates for whom I will not be voting.

 

I place a high value on honesty and integrity in government. When I support a candidate and he or she does not pan out, then I don't hesitate to admit that I was wrong about them. Colin Powell once said "Don't let your ego get too close to your position, so that if your position gets shot down, your ego doesn't go with it."

 

What I do not understand about Obama supporters. Would it not be better to simply admit that your trust in him was misplaced than to conclude that all politicians lie anyway? If everybody holds elected officials to that same low standard, then we are doomed as a society. We will become North Mexico.

I'm not whining about Obama being attacked by his opposition. I'm trying to move the discussion past a repetitive conversation and agenda. Obama sucks. We get it. Can we get back to the topic at hand or do we want to talk about how Obama sucks some more?

 

 

Do you really think Congress cares? Seriously? You can call me uninformed until the cows come home but I'll never beleive any of the fat cats do anything more than lip service to all of us. The NSA is a talking point but even Congress isn't going to stop them. Or they can't stop them. Or they won't stop them. It's like I said earlier.....stop the guys in power from doing it. I'll wait. The guy who tried can't even come back to the USA. Yeah, that worked. Will the next Edward Snowden step up the plate? You're up to bat.

 

Yeah, they do care. Every politician who worries about reelection cares (which is all of them). It's one of the hottest issues in national politics.

 

Why do you think the Obama Administration has had to actively defend these programs since the Snowden revelations? Significant public opposition from BOTH parties.

 

A lot of people care and there are a few in Congress who have forced votes (see Amash amendment) to put our elected officials on record. An informed voter would find out how their elected official voted and use that to determine how to cast their ballot.

 

Just because President Obama supports the NSA's surveillance programs doesn't mean everyone else could care less. That's an emotionally convenient viewpoint.

 

Because of Edward Snowden, we're having a national debate about the legality and constitutionality of these programs.

Yeah, they do care. Every politician who worries about reelection cares (which is all of them). It's one of the hottest issues in national politics.

 

Why do you think the Obama Administration has had to actively defend these programs since the Snowden revelations? Significant public opposition from BOTH parties.

 

A lot of people care and there are a few in Congress who have forced votes (see Amash amendment) to put our elected officials on record. An informed voter would find out how their elected official voted and use that to determine how to cast their ballot.

 

Just because President Obama supports the NSA's surveillance programs doesn't mean everyone else could care less. That's an emotionally convenient viewpoint.

 

Because of Edward Snowden, we're having a national debate about the legality and constitutionality of these programs.

 

Mitch McConnell is another supporter of the NSA surveillance program. I was 50 feet away from him when he told a public crowd that Snowden was a traitor so while there may be public opposition from both sides there is also public agreement on both sides. What is the real answer when only the NSA is listening? That's my question.

Mitch McConnell is another supporter of the NSA surveillance program. I was 50 feet away from him when he told a public crowd that Snowden was a traitor so while there may be public opposition from both sides there is also public agreement on both sides. What is the real answer when only the NSA is listening? That's my question.

What makes you believe that use of the NSA intelligence is not already being used for political purposes? James Clapper's assurances? How many lies must this administration get caught telling for some people to understand that we cannot trust anything that comes out of their mouths?

 

Are you going to trust the next Republican president when he or she assures you that the intelligence gathered by the NSA about your phone logs stays with the NSA? Or will you believe the Democrats in Congress who will be accusing Republicans of using the information for political purposes?

 

Wiretapping domestic phone calls and viewing the call logs of American citizens should require a court order based on evidence of wrongdoing.

What makes you believe that use of the NSA intelligence is not already being used for political purposes? James Clapper's assurances? How many lies must this administration get caught telling for some people to understand that we cannot trust anything that comes out of their mouths?

 

Are you going to trust the next Republican president when he or she assures you that the intelligence gathered by the NSA about your phone logs stays with the NSA? Or will you believe the Democrats in Congress who will be accusing Republicans of using the information for political purposes?

 

Wiretapping domestic phone calls and viewing the call logs of American citizens should require a court order based on evidence of wrongdoing.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the NSA is used for political purposes and will continue to be used for political purpose for the remainder of human existence on this planet regardless of who is in the White House. This is much bigger than this administration or the next administration.

 

I'm not going to trust any politician who tries to tell me what they want me to believe the NSA is used for. None of them will be honest when it comes to the real purpose of the NSA. Why would they start telling us the whole truth about the NSA now?

 

Do you really believe a court order would get us the truth? I don't.

I'm pretty sure that the NSA is used for political purposes and will continue to be used for political purpose for the remainder of human existence on this planet regardless of who is in the White House. This is much bigger than this administration or the next administration.

 

I'm not going to trust any politician who tries to tell me what they want me to believe the NSA is used for. None of them will be honest when it comes to the real purpose of the NSA. Why would they start telling us the whole truth about the NSA now?

 

Do you really believe a court order would get us the truth? I don't.

 

As of the early 80's and likely well before the NSA was recording every electronic transmission and voice call crossing the borders. Obviously with the advances in technology that capability was easy to turn inward. I forget how many acres of computers are underground that sift through all the data and recordings.

 

Sometimes truth is stranger (and more ominous) than in movies...

 

As of the early 80's and likely well before the NSA was recording every electronic transmission and voice call crossing the borders. Obviously with the advances in technology that capability was easy to turn inward. I forget how many acres of computers are underground that sift through all the data and recordings.

 

Sometimes truth is stranger (and more ominous) than in movies...

 

 

 

It may sound silly but after watching Enemy of the State is when I felt like we lost the battle of privacy in America. That movie was made in 1998. While it is Hollywood it gave us all plenty of insight into how something like that could be done. It was eye opening and scary. In 1998. The government has been playing us for a long long time.

I'm pretty sure that the NSA is used for political purposes and will continue to be used for political purpose for the remainder of human existence on this planet regardless of who is in the White House. This is much bigger than this administration or the next administration.

 

I'm not going to trust any politician who tries to tell me what they want me to believe the NSA is used for. None of them will be honest when it comes to the real purpose of the NSA. Why would they start telling us the whole truth about the NSA now?

 

Do you really believe a court order would get us the truth? I don't.

I believe that blanket subpoenas with no evidence of wrongdoing are clear violations of the 4th Amendment. It is outrageous that the NSA is collecting call records for American citizens calling other American citizens on American soil with no court order based on evidence.

 

When you accept violations of your constitutional rights as inevitable, then you are just inviting abuse at the hands of your own government.

I believe that blanket subpoenas with no evidence of wrongdoing are clear violations of the 4th Amendment. It is outrageous that the NSA is collecting call records for American citizens calling other American citizens on American soil with no court order based on evidence.

 

When you accept violations of your constitutional rights as inevitable, then you are just inviting abuse at the hands of your own government.

 

I'm waiting for someone to reign the government in. No one has done anything yet. I can't wait to see who that powerful person will end up being.

I'm waiting for someone to reign the government in. No one has done anything yet. I can't wait to see who that powerful person will end up being.

 

I think it starts with the voters. There are a handful of Senators who have put this issue at the fore, but until voters demand their privacy then I don't imagine the rest of the lot will ever go along with them, and that includes the rest of the elected officials. It's just been too easy, electorally, to claim those who raise these objections aren't concerned with security or are aiding terrorists. This thread is an example. We've spent over 200 posts arguing over Snowden's motivations and not over what the NSA is doing.

 

And I have no faith that the Supreme Court will ever castrate these practices. The Court has weakened the Fourth Amendment at every turn, especially when it comes to electronics/technology. Scalia and Thomas have all but said that since this technology didn't exist at the time of ratification that they aren't protected by the constitution.

 

The NSA and CIA should not be unaccountable and it shouldn't be taboo to ask they be accountable.

I'm waiting for someone to reign the government in. No one has done anything yet. I can't wait to see who that powerful person will end up being.

 

Old buddy, it ain't ever going to happen until we actually have a revolution. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Old buddy, it ain't ever going to happen until we actually have a revolution. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

Me either. That's why I am surprised this is even a discussion. I don't live in a fantasy world where I believe that the people have power over the government let alone the NSA.

 

 

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Me either. That's why I am surprised this is even a discussion. I don't live in a fantasy world where I believe that the people have power over the government let alone the NSA.

 

 

Not. Gonna. Happen.

 

The government would destroy any revolution unless it was led by a hero in the military. Not sure if there are any that fit that job description right now. Has to be someone like IKE, McArthur, Colin Powell, Napoleon.

Has to be a Coup for this stuff to happen.