Why politicize it though? Who you vote for and identify with politically has nothing to do with this IMO. If we are going to politicize it go back through the thread and see who all is saying what. I seem to recall people from both sides that normally disagree actually agreeing with one another for a change in this one.

I agree, I was pointing out that same scandal 8 years ago would have had almost everyone taking an opposite side than they are now.

What abuse actually happened? Did any American get indicted, get arrested, have their spouse find out they were cheating on them or any other bad thing happen to them due to the NSA Computers listening for "Certain Phrases and Code Words" used by terrorist cells targeting our country?

 

I mean seriously people do realize that no one is out there listening to each of our calls, right? No one is reading every text or email? Some Computer may be doing it, but I would even then bet that only those targeted for illegal activity are being monitored.

 

 

This. Anyone who thinks the government hasn't been listening to us long before Snowden and will continue to listen to us long after Snowden is living and incredibly naive life. I'm more worried about some random person stealing my identity than the government watching me tweet about the NBA Finals.

 

For all of you mass surveillance conspiracy theorists.....do you really think if Snowden had been successful that the government wouldn't listen to us anymore?

I agree, I was pointing out that same scandal 8 years ago would have had almost everyone taking an opposite side than they are now.

 

 

I don't know. I think it does depend on people's perspectives. I know my views are leaning more towards the conservative side than liberal side for some things as I get older however I will still identify myself as a democrat. I've always felt like the government has and will monitor us one way or another whether we know it or not. I also feel like if I was an employee of NSA that I would go to work and do my job like they expect me to and I would never do anything to harm my employer.

This. Anyone who thinks the government hasn't been listening to us long before Snowden and will continue to listen to us long after Snowden is living and incredibly naive life. I'm more worried about some random person stealing my identity than the government watching me tweet about the NBA Finals.

 

For all of you mass surveillance conspiracy theorists.....do you really think if Snowden had been successful that the government wouldn't listen to us anymore?

 

It ceases to be a theory when it's proven.

It ceases to be a theory when it's proven.

 

You gonna answer the question or just ignore it? The government saw the question.

I agree, I was pointing out that same scandal 8 years ago would have had almost everyone taking an opposite side than they are now.

The extent of the surveillance that was revealed eight years ago was not what Snowden revealed.

 

As I recall, during the Bush administration we found out that the international phone calls of Americans with potential terrorists were being monitored. Maybe the government lied then too, but it also might be that the technology had not caught up to the NSA's desire for information eight years ago.

 

I am much less concerned about my privacy being violated by the NSA than I am about the privacy of elected officials and federal regulators. I want to have at least some confidence that the people for whom I vote are acting in my best interests and not in response to blackmail.

You gonna answer the question or just ignore it? The government saw the question.

 

Ignore it.

 

It starts off as nonsensical. "if Snowden had been successful,"

 

He was successful. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion ob BGP.

The extent of the surveillance that was revealed eight years ago was not what Snowden revealed.

 

As I recall, during the Bush administration we found out that the international phone calls of Americans with potential terrorists were being monitored. Maybe the government lied then too, but it also might be that the technology had not caught up to the NSA's desire for information eight years ago.

 

I am much less concerned about my privacy being violated by the NSA than I am about the privacy of elected officials and federal regulators. I want to have at least some confidence that the people for whom I vote are acting in my best interests and not in response to blackmail.

 

The government has been lying to us for over 200 years. Of course they lied then.

Ignore it.

 

It starts off as nonsensical. "if Snowden had been successful,"

 

He was successful. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion ob BGP.

 

More deflection. Typical.

The government has been lying to us for over 200 years. Of course they lied then.

I never said that they did not lie to us. I have no way of knowing unless they get caught red handed, the way that Eric Clapper and Obama have been caught lying to us. I guess I could just accept the "everybody does it" argument and be happy too, but as a voter, I like to hold candidates accountable for lying to me.

I never said that they did not lie to us. I have no way of knowing unless they get caught red handed, the way that Eric Clapper and Obama have been caught lying to us. I guess I could just accept the "everybody does it" argument and be happy too, but as a voter, I like to hold candidates accountable for lying to me.

It would be difficult to find a candidate or politician that hasn't lied to us about something, you got to pick which lies are worse than others IMO.

The question as to whether Snowden is a traitor or not is irrelevant IMO.

 

The dude left the country, he probably knows he's a traitor. So what? It's beside the point.

 

The problem is - should our government have the legal authority to scoop up billions of records every day of every American citizen without a warrant citing where and what is to be seized?

 

If you believe in our democratic process, government transparency and accountability then that answer should be a resounding "no."

 

The more important question, however, is - is sifting through trillions of stored records the most effective and efficient way of finding credible threats to national security?

 

And I think the Boston bombing already answered that question.

I would guess that any successes from the NSA program as far as stopping threats will never be known to the general public.

I would guess that any successes from the NSA program as far as stopping threats will never be known to the general public.

I do not think that is a safe assumption. Presidents like to get credit for successes, especially presidents who have posted a record of failures. I suspect that few successes go un-leaked. VP Biden blabbing about Seal Team 6's role in the Bin Laden killing is a good example.

I do not think that is a safe assumption. Presidents like to get credit for successes, especially presidents who have posted a record of failures. I suspect that few successes go un-leaked. VP Biden blabbing about Seal Team 6's role in the Bin Laden killing is a good example.

 

But there are things that even Presidents can't tell the electorate.

 

The Biden gaff about Seal Team 6 didn't help or hurt the President getting credit, it was just stupid by Biden. Now if Biden or someone else had spilled the beans about the attack and they were trying to keep it secret that would be another thing.