July 2, 201313 yr His Avatar says it all. Next.... Duh ... :ohbrother: :lol2: Gotta laugh at myself over that one.
July 2, 201313 yr Who hasn't become better after being in Cal's program? I don't see Gonzaga as a good fit for Wiltjer. Their style of play is fast and athletic. Here is the ultimate question for Wiltjer - what is your basketball goal? 1. NBA? - If yes, stay at UK, redshirt, keep working and learning and you will have your best shot at an NBA career. 2. Most playing time in college? - Transfer. I would say most got better from coming to UK and playing for Coach Cal. Josh Harrellson, Darius Miller, Bledsoe, Knight, Patterson, etc all got better under him. Now was it all because of his direct coaching no. However his style and his recruiting does have a direct effect at getting players better. Besides last year, in practice they usually have so much talent that each day these players are going against other future pro's which does get players better too. Can Coach Cal coach up an average player up as good as say Coach K can or even Tubby can? Probably not. However he can coach and the fact that he brings in NBA talent, it makes his players have to practice against other NBA talent each day. So yes coming to UK to play for Coach Cal does get players better. JH is the perfect example of that. Before Cal he was a lazy player who wanted to stand outside the 3 point line and shoot. However under Coach Cal he did sit the bench his Junior year but had to practice each day against the likes of Cousins, Patterson, etc. Then the very next year going every day in practice against Enes Kanter. These things do get players better, so being in Cal's program does and has gotten players better. Last year was the only exception, hence the reason for the bad year. Players had not much to compete against in practice.
July 2, 201313 yr I'm not ignoring anything. There's been three or four names thrown out that he supposedly developed so much they got to the NBA. There are some folks that seem to think (based on their analysis of Cal) he's the only person that could have done so. Yes, he was the coach they played for at UK, and "got them to the NBA." My point is still simply that I don't think Cal is the world class player development specialist some make him out to be. Apparently it's a crime to think that's the case. I'm assuming UK's lack of success this season had nothing to do with Cal's developmental skills? After all, he did say some of them were un-coachable. TheDeuce I want you to look at Calipari in maybe a different light. He is a good developer of talent and Harrelson, Liggins, Bledsoe, Patterson, and etc. are good examples (But let's not get hung up on the players I just named). His true talent and what he is a world class talent at, no one is better, is drawing attention to his players. The guy is a marketing genius. He talks the talk better than anyone and is the best at putting his players in the best possible light to be drafted and drafted high. So I do think he is great at player development, but his true talent and why the top recruits love him is because of his ability to run a players first program and get them into the spotlight. He calls it the Kentucky Effect but I thoroughly believe the majority of his players get drafted higher because of him and Kentucky. Some would say, don't all coaches do that, but I really don't think they do...they just say they do.
July 2, 201313 yr Duke North Carolina Syracuse Louisville Ohio State Just a random list off the top of my head of schools all equally as capable of preparing players for the NBA. Can't really speak on anybody's facilities other than UofL's. I don't know how you can say a school like Louisville is listed in the same caliber as Kentucky and some of the others in regards to preparing players for the league. While they have great facilities, the key words are what you missed in that post "prepare you for the league". I don't know the exact figures, but I have a hard time believing that looking at first round draft picks, or players in the NBA, that Louisville comes in anywhere near Kentucky, North Carolina, and Duke in recent times...or ever even. I say that with the upmost respect for Louisville and their program. Unlike most UK fans, I like to see them do well if they aren't playing Kentucky. But they don't do a great job of preparing guys for the NBA. They do a great job of maintaining a stellar program. I'm also not arguing which school of thought is better, just making a statement.
July 2, 201313 yr TheDeuce I want you to look at Calipari in maybe a different light. He is a good developer of talent and Harrelson, Liggins, Bledsoe, Patterson, and etc. are good examples (But let's not get hung up on the players I just named). His true talent and what he is a world class talent at, no one is better, is drawing attention to his players. The guy is a marketing genius. He talks the talk better than anyone and is the best at putting his players in the best possible light to be drafted and drafted high. So I do think he is great at player development, but his true talent and why the top recruits love him is because of his ability to run a players first program and get them into the spotlight. He calls it the Kentucky Effect but I thoroughly believe the majority of his players get drafted higher because of him and Kentucky. Some would say, don't all coaches do that, but I really don't think they do...they just say they do. I can agree with most of this post. Especially the bolded.
July 2, 201313 yr One big thing Kyle has to consider that no one has mentioned. GIRLFRIEND!!!!!!!!! The girlfriend issue has been mentioned on KSR quite a bit. I want Wiltjer to stay at UK, but I ultimately hope he does what is in his own best interest.
July 4, 201313 yr I'm not ignoring anything. There's been three or four names thrown out that he supposedly developed so much they got to the NBA. There are some folks that seem to think (based on their analysis of Cal) he's the only person that could have done so. Yes, he was the coach they played for at UK, and "got them to the NBA." My point is still simply that I don't think Cal is the world class player development specialist some make him out to be. Apparently it's a crime to think that's the case. I'm assuming UK's lack of success this season had nothing to do with Cal's developmental skills? After all, he did say some of them were un-coachable. In re: to the bold, underlined: I wouldn't say he has a bad % of guys going pro either though. I wouldn't say he's hurting their chances-- I feel I could name more of 'his' guys that are pros than plenty of other schools. In re: to the italicized: Look at his track record at UK. 2010- Elite 8 (coaching 5 players in the first round of the draft- Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Patterson, Orton), 2011 - Final Four (losing Kanter, the #3 pick in that draft to eligibility, putting Knight in the pros, seeing Harrellson overachieve and play pro, Liggins being a solid young piece for an NBA Conference/Championship contender with a good front office), 2012 - National Championship (coaching the #1&2 picks of that year's draft, Miller being on a pro team, Jones and Lamb being off to solid NBA careers. 2013 - NIT (recruiting class was once in possibly a quarter-century week, loses what would have in all probability been a higher draft pick to injury and the only other pro is a first rounder whose young and had a disappointing college season). 2014 - Once in a decade type talent in a recruiting class, #1 overall class w/ 6 McDAA's. In summary: Is Cal the 'only' coach that could have done so? IMO, no; but if you look at his results, who would you rank as a more likely coach to have done that??? I'm genuinely interested in knowing.
July 4, 201313 yr Gorgui Dieng as a first round draft pick > Any player development Cal has done, ever. About three years ago, Gorgui weighed around 170 lbs and didn't know that offensive fouls counted towards getting DQed.
July 4, 201313 yr Gorgui Dieng as a first round draft pick > Any player development Cal has done, ever. About three years ago, Gorgui weighed around 170 lbs and didn't know that offensive fouls counted towards getting DQed. Josh Harrellson begs to differ!
July 4, 201313 yr Josh Harrellson begs to differ! Yeah he had no business getting drafted, and even getting minutes in his rookie year!!! Gillespie made him ride the equipment truck home from Vanderbilt one night, I mean they dude was just a big goof. Cal put him in like, checked his attitude and got him focused and the improvement was night and day. Same for someone like Liggins, and especially for somebody like Darius Miller. Some people would beg to differ with Miller, you don't hear his name brought up a lot in these talks, but IMO Miller was perhaps his best development job. This was the same guy I quietly referred to as "Disaperious Miller" for much of his first two and a half seasons. It was just like I had accepted the fact that Miller did not have the mental sharpness or approach to be the player that could live up to his potential. He had the least confidence of almost any top 50 player I can remember, at least playing for Kentucky anyway. It was just like he was never up to the moment, he would show flashes, but for the most part he was always more less of a non factor in any kind of big moment. After getting a couple of years in with Cal though Miller lived up to his potential and then some IMO. Calipari molded him into an NBA wing and that didn't look like the case at all his freshman and sophomore seasons. I mean go back and watch games from those first couple of years, then watch 2011-2012 Darius Miller and its like it's not even the same guy. So definitely you cannot short Calipari on development although most of his guys have elite talent to begin with. Not all do. Given the help of having talented NBA level guys around to go up against every day in practice, the development aspect still has a lot to do with Cal and more importantly Coach O, Robic, K Payne, Strick, and those guys.
July 4, 201313 yr Gorgui Dieng as a first round draft pick > Any player development Cal has done, ever. About three years ago, Gorgui weighed around 170 lbs and didn't know that offensive fouls counted towards getting DQed. I will applaud the job with Dieng, he did improve a ton. But, the dude had only been playing basketball for a couple of years before he even made it to Louivsille. He was as raw as it got, but Pitino was able to bring him along. It was clear he had all kinds of raw talent, he was just so new to basketball. You take a lot of guys that size, with that kind of athleticism, I don't care if they have never seen a basketball, you put them in the right setting for a few years and a lot of them will turn into pretty good players. If they take to it, it comes down to learning and understanding the game of basketball and the little things that go with it, fundamentals, etc. What you can't teach is physical gifts and athleticism and obviously Gorgs had an abundance of that.
July 4, 201313 yr Gorgui Dieng as a first round draft pick > Any player development Cal has done, ever. About three years ago, Gorgui weighed around 170 lbs and didn't know that offensive fouls counted towards getting DQed. congrats! In Pitinos whole career at UL only one player has developed into a pro!
July 5, 201313 yr Gorgui Dieng as a first round draft pick > Any player development Cal has done, ever. About three years ago, Gorgui weighed around 170 lbs and didn't know that offensive fouls counted towards getting DQed. Dieng was loadeddddddd with talent and ability, Jorts was just tall with a good body at the end and learned how to play in the post.
July 5, 201313 yr congrats! In Pitinos whole career at UL only one player has developed into a pro! Yeah the job with Dieng alone doesn't really make up for the failure to develop guys like Character and Samuels.
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