Vince Carter to the Magic

[5wide]

Without looking them up, which two players would you want the most?

 

Player A- 79 GP, 36 MPG. 17.7 PPG (43.9 FG%, 39.7 3PT%), 5.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, 2.0 TO, 1.0 SPG, .7 BPG

 

Player B- 77 GP, 36 MPG. 16.8 PPG (41.3 FG%, 35.6 3PT%), 5.3 RPG, 4.9 APG, 2.7 TO, .8 SPG, .3 BPG

 

Player C-80 GP, 36 MPG. 20.8 PPG (43.7 FG%, 38.5 3PT%), 5.1 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.1 TO, 1.0 SPG, .5 BPG.

 

Player C and then flip a quarter between the other two...

[cch5432]

It's about more than the #'s. This isn't NBA Live.

 

VC is a 20-point scorer. He's one of the most athletic players ever. He gives them a proven 8-time All-Star at the 2, which they didn't have this year.

 

Essentially he replaces Turkoglu. Hedo, while fun to watch, is no Vince Carter. He has never been an All-Star. He is outweighed by Vince by 15 pounds. He is only 2 years younger than Vince.

 

I assume you mean that it has to do with style of play. The Magic's style of play is two-fold. They either pick-and-roll with Dwight- I assure you that Vince, more athletic and a better driver than anyone else on this team, can handle that. The other is a 4-out with Dwight in the post drawing double teams and kicking it out. VC shot 38.5% from 3 last year (VC is a 37.6 career shooter). Hedo shot 35.6% (38.5 for career).

 

I just don't see what Hedo can do that Vince can't. One last thing to add- I know that Hedo took on an important role because of the injury to Nelson this year. But I don't see that being a long-term issue- the Magic have committed to Nelson

[cch5432]

Player C and then flip a quarter between the other two...

Exactly. The Magic flipped a coin and got Rashard, and went out and got Vince Carter.

 

FWIW, I'd take Player A over Player B for outdoing him in every single statistical category except assists.

[CatsCatsCats]

Why do they need Turk? What does he do that Rashard Lewis or Vince Carter doesn't do? They both have better stats than him.

 

What injuries? He's played 76 or more games for 4 straight years, and more than Lewis or Turk.

 

Him or Turk were the two forwards all year, with Lewis normally guarding the other teams power forward. When you have Dwight, your PF can be more of a hybrid.

 

Still a 20 point scorer who plays 36 minutes a game and 80 games a year.

 

UMMMM........Runs their type of offense better! He is the trigger man on that pick and roll creating shots off spacing. His size makes him better at that than anyone they have. Lewis doesn't handle the ball, and Carter has always been better as an isolation player. Once again, adding Carter to replace Turkoglu changes their team. I think it puts them at 3rd in the East.

[cch5432]

UMMMM........Runs their type of offense better! He is the trigger man on that pick and roll creating shots off spacing. His size makes him better at that than anyone they have. Lewis doesn't handle the ball, and Carter has always been better as an isolation player. Once again, adding Carter to replace Turkoglu changes their team. I think it puts them at 3rd in the East.

 

I'm not going to convince you, but I just don't see it. Nelson will run the point this year, and I don't think Carter will have problems with the pick and roll- percentage wise he is a better shooter, and athletically he is light years ahead of Turk. Furthermore, Carter has never played with a big man down low- now that he has one, I think we'll see that he is more than capable of coming off the screen and roll.

[CatsCatsCats]

VC is a 20-point scorer. He's one of the most athletic players ever. He gives them a proven 8-time All-Star at the 2, which they didn't have this year.

 

Essentially he replaces Turkoglu. Hedo, while fun to watch, is no Vince Carter. He has never been an All-Star. He is outweighed by Vince by 15 pounds. He is only 2 years younger than Vince.

 

I assume you mean that it has to do with style of play. The Magic's style of play is two-fold. They either pick-and-roll with Dwight- I assure you that Vince, more athletic and a better driver than anyone else on this team, can handle that. The other is a 4-out with Dwight in the post drawing double teams and kicking it out. VC shot 38.5% from 3 last year (VC is a 37.6 career shooter). Hedo shot 35.6% (38.5 for career).

 

I just don't see what Hedo can do that Vince can't.

 

Besides win?

 

How about the Cleveland series where he averaged around 10 assists to go along with double digit points?

 

Will Carter be satisfied in a everyone scores offense? Turk was. Carter will have to settle for 16 PPG, 12 shots and probably Lewis taking the big shots if they are smart though Carter is very clutch.

 

Here's some other #'s. These are career #'s.

 

Player 1- 27.2 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 6.2 APG, 2.2 SPG, 10 time NBA All Star.

Player 2- 22.2 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 4.7 APG, 7 Time NBA All-star.

 

Those players look great in the stat column but neither player has ever held the championship trophy, and have only won a handful of playoff series combined. I'm sure you guys can figure out who they are.

[CatsCatsCats]

I'm not going to convince you, but I just don't see it. Nelson will run the point this year, and I don't think Carter will have problems with the pick and roll- percentage wise he is a better shooter, and athletically he is light years ahead of Turk. Furthermore, Carter has never played with a big man down low- now that he has one, I think we'll see that he is more than capable of coming off the screen and roll.

 

And score. Scoring was a bonus from Turkoglu. He really allowed everyone else to play there games because he was such a mismatch because of his height.

 

As I've said many times the Magic are better without Nelson. Just wait for Cavs-Celtics ECF next year.

[cch5432]

One final thing to keep in mind- Ryan Anderson may be a better player than Courtney Lee. He was draft right before him and scored more PPG in college against tougher competition. Even if he isn't better (which I don't think he is), he is still a solid frontcourt player, which is where Orlando needs depth more than at the SG spot.

[5wide]

Exactly. The Magic flipped a coin and got Rashard, and went out and got Vince Carter.

 

FWIW, I'd take Player A over Player B for outdoing him in every single statistical category except assists.

 

I'll go out on a limb and guess that Turkoglu could have scored 4-5 more ppg with the Nets.

 

Carter will be 33 before the All-Star break. For a guy who was at his best using his incredible athleticism, that's getting old. He can still get it done and roll up stats, but my take on Carter is that he's at this best when there's no pressure.

 

I don't think he's a good fit in Orlando. Like I said, its not about stats and value. Obviously, Carter is worth more than what they gave up if you look at it on paper. But, as all of us who've watched sports know, on paper doesn't always play out on the court.

 

Assuming Orlando loses Turkoglu, I think they've downgraded at the 3 spot.

[cch5432]

I'll go out on a limb and guess that Turkoglu could have scored 4-5 more ppg with the Nets.

 

Carter will be 33 before the All-Star break. For a guy who was at his best using his incredible athleticism, that's getting old. He can still get it done and roll up stats, but my take on Carter is that he's at this best when there's no pressure.

 

I don't think he's a good fit in Orlando. Like I said, its not about stats and value. Obviously, Carter is worth more than what they gave up if you look at it on paper. But, as all of us who've watched sports know, on paper doesn't always play out on the court.

 

Assuming Orlando loses Turkoglu, I think they've downgraded at the 3 spot.

We'll see. I don't think Turk would have scored that much in NJ- he would have been keyed on by opposing teams more.

 

VC is a big upgrade at the 2 spot, and assuming Rashard moves to the 3, I consider that an upgrade as well. Of course, they will have some problems at the 4.

[5wide]

We'll see. I don't think Turk would have scored that much in NJ- he would have been keyed on by opposing teams more.

 

VC is a big upgrade at the 2 spot, and assuming Rashard moves to the 3, I consider that an upgrade as well. Of course, they will have some problems at the 4.

 

I'm just not a fan of Carter. He's a very good player, but seems to be lacking something. But, I'll say this...

 

If they re-sign Turkoglu, this team is stacked.

 

1 - Nelson

2 - Carter

3 - Turkoglu

4 - Lewis

5 - Howard

 

And, Pietrus as the sixth man.

 

It would be hard to find anyone better 1-6 and very few as good. Maybe the Lakers if they keep their roster in place.

 

On paper, they'd be the favorites in the east, IMO. But, I'd be a curious observer to see how Carter fits in...will there be enough shots to satisfy everyone? Will Carter be happy with a lesser role on the offensive end? And, if their perimeter guys shoot a lot, will Howard become disgruntled, or will he be happy getting offensive rebounds and putback dunks?

 

We'll see. Its hard to fault the trade, but I'm just a Vince Carter skeptic. I may be wrong.

[CatsCatsCats]

We'll see. I don't think Turk would have scored that much in NJ- he would have been keyed on by opposing teams more.

 

VC is a big upgrade at the 2 spot, and assuming Rashard moves to the 3, I consider that an upgrade as well. Of course, they will have some problems at the 4.

 

Why would you want Lewis to play the 3? He is more effective at the 4.

[CatsCatsCats]

I'm just not a fan of Carter. He's a very good player, but seems to be lacking something. But, I'll say this...

 

If they re-sign Turkoglu, this team is stacked.

 

1 - Nelson

2 - Carter

3 - Turkoglu

4 - Lewis

5 - Howard

 

And, Pietrus as the sixth man.

 

It would be hard to find anyone better 1-6 and very few as good. Maybe the Lakers if they keep their roster in place.

 

On paper, they'd be the favorites in the east, IMO. But, I'd be a curious observer to see how Carter fits in...will there be enough shots to satisfy everyone? Will Carter be happy with a lesser role on the offensive end? And, if their perimeter guys shoot a lot, will Howard become disgruntled, or will he be happy getting offensive rebounds and putback dunks?

 

We'll see. Its hard to fault the trade, but I'm just a Vince Carter skeptic. I may be wrong.

 

5Wide, I agree with everything you said.

[cch5432]

Why would you want Lewis to play the 3? He is more effective at the 4.

 

I think he can play either, but you are right that he may be a more effective 4. Either way, it is a downgrade at either position (the 3 or 4), but I think it is more than made up by the upgrade at the 2.

[bugatti]

He'll be back mark it down.

Hedo opts out of contract