Ummmmm, He Said "Hell," I'm Telling

[Hearsay]

Seems the drive-by media is predicting the revival of the Relgious Right with Palin, because her pastor stated that anyone who doesn't accept Christ is going to Hell.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157570

 

Thye just don't get it.

[Hasbeen]

There is so much wrong with that article that there really is just no where to start.......

[Hasbeen]

Of the 60 million white evangelicals in this country, 60 percent of them believe the Bible is literally true.

 

What? Evangelicalism is not a white/black issue. I've sat in a pew with many African/American worshipers. There are many predominantly African/American denominations who would classify themselves as evangelical. Would not a similar number of those also believe a literal interpretation of the Bible? Read the article and explain why this statement has any relevance whatsoever other than a poorly hidden jab at the religious right.

[Hasbeen]

The senior pastor of that church, in sermons that circulated online before they were taken down last week, preaches hell for anyone who isn't saved by Jesus. America does not know enough yet about what Palin personally believes, but her church background—she now worships at a nondenominational Bible church—puts her squarely in the tradition of the old-school religious right.

 

If this is the battle ground the left wants to pursue, I can't wait.

[halfback20]

The senior pastor of that church, in sermons that circulated online before they were taken down last week, preaches hell for anyone who isn't saved by Jesus. America does not know enough yet about what Palin personally believes, but her church background—she now worships at a nondenominational Bible church—puts her squarely in the tradition of the old-school religious right.

 

If this is the battle ground the left wants to pursue, I can't wait.

 

There are a lot of people in this country who do not believe in Jesus.

 

And why is it that every time a news article is written about Palin or McCain, someone says "If this is what the left wants to talk about, bring it" or "Please please please attack her on that". It's not like Obama wrote the article attacking Palin's religious beliefs.

[Hasbeen]

There are a lot of people in this country who do not believe in Jesus.

 

And why is it that every time a news article is written about Palin or McCain, someone says "If this is what the left wants to talk about, bring it" or "Please please please attack her on that". It's not like Obama wrote the article attacking Palin's religious beliefs.

 

I have no idea what your first sentence has to do with anything. The topic is an article denouncing Palin's pastor's views.

 

As for your second, I said nothing about Obama.

[Fastbreak]

At the risk of coming across as a totally unhip, rigid fundamentalist who's apparently impolite and incorrect politically, I do think it's worth seeing what Jesus Himself said about the topic. I don't believe it because a preacher said it, but I do believe it because Jesus said it.

 

Here are just a few that leaped to mind...

 

Matthew 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

 

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

The bottom line here is there are apparently a lot of people, doing lots of amazing churchy stuff that will not enter Heaven because they do not have a genuine relationship with Jesus. I didn't come up with these words... I just happen to believe them. :thumb:

[halfback20]

Your first post included this paragraph.

 

The senior pastor of that church, in sermons that circulated online before they were taken down last week, preaches hell for anyone who isn't saved by Jesus. America does not know enough yet about what Palin personally believes, but her church background—she now worships at a nondenominational Bible church—puts her squarely in the tradition of the old-school religious right.

 

And you said "If this is the battle ground the left wants to pursue, I can't wait."

 

So I said,

 

There are a lot of people in this country who do not believe in Jesus.

 

in response to the paragraph about people not believing in Jesus automatically going to hell. There are a lot of people in this country who are not Christians, and that paragraph is something they might not agree with. That was my point.

 

I have no idea what your first sentence has to do with anything. The topic is an article denouncing Palin's pastor's views.

[halfback20]

At the risk of coming across as a totally unhip, rigid fundamentalist who's apparently impolite and incorrect politically, I do think it's worth seeing what Jesus Himself said about the topic. I don't believe it because a preacher said it, but I do believe it because Jesus said it.

 

Here are just a few that leaped to mind...

 

Matthew 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

 

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

The bottom line here is there are apparently a lot of people, doing lots of amazing churchy stuff that will not enter Heaven because they do not have a genuine relationship with Jesus. I didn't come up with these words... I just happen to believe them. :thumb:

 

And what about the people who don't believe in Jesus? Do you think they'll agree with what Palin's pastor said? Serious question.

[Fastbreak]

And what about the people who don't believe in Jesus? Do you think they'll agree with what Palin's pastor said? Serious question.

I don't understand why Christians should be expected to water down the Gospel in order to appeal to voters who may not share their specific beliefs. If that's who Palin is, so be it... be who you are. Let the chips fall where they may. How refreshing it would be to have a politician willing to look us in the eye and say, this is who I am and this is what I believe... whether they're Evengelical Christians, Mormon, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Agnostic, Atheist or otherwise.

 

We're all tired of politicians recreating themselves and pandering just to gain votes.

[Hasbeen]

And what about the people who don't believe in Jesus? Do you think they'll agree with what Palin's pastor said? Serious question.

 

No, I would not expect they would agree with what Palin's pastor said.

I really am trying to understand the relevance. Do you think a pastor (or anyone for that matter) should alter his views because some people don't believe in Jesus?

 

Serious question.

[Hasbeen]

I don't understand why Christians should be expected to water down the Gospel in order to appeal to voters who may not share their specific beliefs. If that's who Palin is, so be it... be who you are. Let the chips fall where they may. How refreshing it would be to have a politician willing to look us in the eye and say, this is who I am and this is what I believe... whether they're Evengelical Christians, Mormon, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Agnostic, Atheist or otherwise.

 

 

Once again you say what I'm trying to, only better.

[Warrior]

At the risk of coming across as a totally unhip, rigid fundamentalist who's apparently impolite and incorrect politically, I do think it's worth seeing what Jesus Himself said about the topic. I don't believe it because a preacher said it, but I do believe it because Jesus said it.

 

Here are just a few that leaped to mind...

 

Matthew 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

Matthew 7:21-29

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

 

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

The bottom line here is there are apparently a lot of people, doing lots of amazing churchy stuff that will not enter Heaven because they do not have a genuine relationship with Jesus. I didn't come up with these words... I just happen to believe them. :thumb:

 

Amen. You just made an A+ on your first exam in my NT Survey 102 class!

[halfback20]

No, I would not expect they would agree with what Palin's pastor said.

I really am trying to understand the relevance. Do you think a pastor (or anyone for that matter) should alter his views because some people don't believe in Jesus?

 

Serious question.

 

No, I'm saying that if she is portrayed to believe that any non-believer is going to hell, it might sway some peoples vote. Not saying it should...but it could.

[Hearsay]

No, I'm saying that if she is portrayed to believe that any non-believer is going to hell, it might sway some peoples vote. Not saying it should...but it could.

 

So then you would concede, then, that Newsweek has taken a perfectly legitimate and privately-held religious belief, and has put it in bold print at the top of the article in order to spread fear and sway some people's votes?